This is for all you rednecks who only have guns to make yourselves feel tough.
Jennifer Hast (who is a damn fine shot with her S&W .357) links to an article confirming what apparently only mouth-breathing hicks like herself, you, and me already knew: arming yourself for home protection has positive benefits:
When sexual assaults started rising in Orlando, Fla., in 1986, police officers noticed women were arming themselves, so they launched a firearms safety course for them. Over the next 12 months, sexual assaults plummeted by 88 percent, burglaries fell by 25 percent and not one of the 2,500 women who took the course fired a gun in a confrontation.
And that, says a new brief submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court by police officers and prosecutors in a controversial gun-ban dispute, is why gun ownership is important and should be available to individuals in the United States.
…The brief notes when the Georgia town of Kennesaw decided to require all residents, with exceptions for conscientious objectors, to keep a firearm at home, home burglaries fell from 66 to 26 to 11 in consecutive years.
In Orlando, the deterrence to criminals who simply knew that their victims may have a gun and may know how to use it and may be willing to do just that had a significant impact, because while Orlando’s rapes were plummeting, assaults were up 5 percent across the state and 7 percent nationally.
The brief cites a study that discovered, based on interviews with felony prisoners in 11 prisons in 10 states, one third of the felons had been “scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim,” and nearly four in 10 had decided against committing a specific crime because they thought the victim might have a gun.
“Seventy-four percent agreed with the statement that ‘One reason burglars avoid houses where people are at home is that they fear being shot,’” the study said.
I’m pretty sure 99% of the comments to this post will consist of some variation on “DUH”. But really. Doesn’t it boggle your mind to know that there are still supposedly intelligent, thoughtful people who truly believe that having a gun in the house is pointless, silly, too dangerous, and nothing but proof that you’re a jackass with a small-penis complex?
I know people who think that. Close friends, even. They have college degrees and make sensible decisions in all other aspects of life, but man, you bring up guns with them and WATCH OUT. It’s like seeing Einstein turn into Corky the Retard right before your eyes.
Anyway. Thank you, Jennifer. This is the kind of article that I like to print out for handy reference when dealing with these mal-informed people. Plus, it’s good to know the Supreme Court won’t have any logical excuse to say gun bans are effective. I could Google it but I’m lazy - anyone know when the decision’s coming down? I shall go to the range to celebrate that day.
Damn straight.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:40 pmWell Duh….
March 13th, 2008 at 7:42 pmEvery now and then when my local talk radio station needs a boost, the host calls for a “what you pack’n hour.” Okay, works for me.
12 guage tactical backed by .45 ACP. The man to the left of the dealer opens.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pmNo. And it doesn’t surprise you, either. But keep posting on this, Rachel. You’re gonna change a lot of whimpy minds, eventually.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:59 pmRachel,
The Supremes will hear oral arguments on March 18th, next Tuesday. Decision should come down sometime in June.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:59 pmSeeing as how, according to the progressive world view, the only purpose of hand guns is to kill people, all of my guns are, Q.E.D., defective. So I feel pretty safe having them about. At least so far.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:04 pmi need to take up pistol lessons again. i wish my hands were large enough to properly hold a glock. i know there are glocks out there that are small enough, but i still wish for larger hands so i can hold a bit of heft, if ya know what i mean. i like hefty guns. my elbows don’t like recoil.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:26 pmWhen it comes to gun fearing wussies, the biggest problem is their refusal to accept the facts. I once dated one who was just… so very irrationally afraid of guns. She grew up without them and had it in her head that they were all forced from the bones of demons and bullets sought out the skulls of children. (That may be hyperbole and she didn’t believe in demons.)
I once asked what she would do if a criminal broke in, some years later, and she had young children. How would she protect them? She refused to have a serious conversation about it. Because it couldn’t happen to her. She’s so worried about her future-children accidentally shooting themselves that she’d give up the ability to protect herself and them from a far more common danger.
People like her believe what the GFW groups say. But then, this is the same girl who, when given hard statistics on the numbers by the CDC, said, “Well, that’s not my opinion.”
I still twitch with irritation about that conversation. Somehow, she managed to find a metrosexual who agrees with her 100% of the time, so unfortunately, it looks like she’s going to breed.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:34 pmbtw, i had a question for you, rachel. and anybody else who can help, i’m all ears.
i’m only a student and guns are a bit expensive. i do plan on getting one (after all the paperwork, of course), but i want to know what would be the best type of handgun for someone my size (rachel, you’re probably my size, from the sound of it). like i said before, i have super small hands, i can’t even grip a football very well. so i was wondering what types of handguns women would usually get.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:35 pmI think this image says all you need to ever say.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:39 pmIt’s a bit light (if it doesn’t start with a 4…well, you’ve all heard that one) but the Bersa Thunder Plus in .380 is a nice little piece. I don’t own one. Yet. But I really like the way it handled at the gun shop where I was looking at it.
I carry a .45 but that little Bersa is next on my list and I intend to carry it as my backup when I acquire it.
It’s basically a clone of the Walther PPK with a bigger magazine and the price is pretty decent.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:44 pmHoly crap! I just browsed over here to see what your most recent post was on and to get a good laugh and nearly had a heart attack when my name was the first two word that I read. Thanks! That makes feel all special n-stuff.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:45 pmI admit it; I have no penis. But I do have a damn fine Smith & Wesson Performance Center .357 Magnum. Yes, it’s the one in my header.
Oh right—DUH!
Definitely D’uh.
RG
March 13th, 2008 at 8:51 pmjjs-I’m not a big girl. 5′4″ and just over 100 pounds. I absolutely adore my 357. Nice thing about the revolver is that it will also shoot 38 special. Since it is the big N frame, that makes the recoil quite soft. I have both a Hogue monogrip in rubber and the Ahrends grips that are in the picture. Both fit very nicely in my hands. The local gun range here has a rental rack of various handguns that you can go try out on the range before spending the money on them. Maybe you have something similar in your area? The guys there have been very helpful and have let me handle anything I wanted. This .357 is my very first handgun which I purchased in January of this year. Good luck! If you’re ever in OKC, go check out H&H
March 13th, 2008 at 8:54 pmjjs,
March 13th, 2008 at 8:58 pmTry going to a gun shop and hold as many different brands and types as it takes to find what feels best to you. That should help you decide what “fits” your hand. I tried three different manufacturers, ruling two out specifically because my hand couldn’t reach the controls well. I had to keep changing my grip to reach things, and I have pretty big paws!
jennifer, i actually am in okc and i have gone to H&H for a gun lesson (the nice gentleman there, i forget his name, took me to the classroom in the back of the store and taught me from step one on how to hold and dismantle a gun.) and then i did some shooting and got the hang of that, but because of school, i haven’t gone back since.
but thanks for the input, i’ll be sure to look at those models.
don t, you’re right, i haven’t done that as of yet. it’s hard to know where to start when they all look pretty enticing.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:03 pmWhen we lived in Portland, there was a drug house across the street. We were actively trying to shut it down, which ultimately we did, but we were under death threats, big time. Fortunately for us, we had a student renting a room from us at the time - and he was from Texas. Brought his toys with him. He had a Ruger mini 14 and a Russian AK47, and my husband had a Walther PPKS, and a Colt Python. One night when things were getting particularly interesting (whacked out druggie swinging an ax and yelling at our house) we opened our big picture windows so they could see in and we all had some hardware in our hands and just stared at them for a good hour. You know, things got real peaceful after that. Since I worked days, my husband worked nights and our student kept all kinds of irregular hours between work and school, they never really knew when anyone was in there or not. Not long after, the drug house was closed up and sold to a nice little family. Happy ending, all without firing a shot.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:08 pmWell, posts like this will definitely chap the anarchybunny’s ass.
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
Cuz y’know, when seconds count, a cop is only 15 minutes away!
March 13th, 2008 at 9:11 pmRachel,
I’m glad to see that the LEAA has been allowed to submit an amicus brief to the court. As one of the founding members, it makes me proud of the organization I was part of setting up in DC about 20 years ago give or take. I can only hope that the court in its present make-up will do the right thing by the founding fathers intentions.
jjs, if you like Glock style striker fired, no external safety, semi-autos try handling a Kahr. They are PERFECT for those with small hands (I gave one to my daughter), and are available with steel or polymer frames, and several sizes, in 9mm, .40 S&W and more recently, .45 ACP. They have a similar slide profile to the Glock, but are much slimmer overall, especially in the gripping area. They also have a very smooth trigger action.
joan of Argghh!, how right you are. I tell people this all the time. I wish we could be everywhere the bad guys are, all the time, but it just ain’t happenin’. We do strive to be only minutes away, but most violent encounters take place in a matter of seconds. As a result, usually we can only take the report and look for the suspects.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:30 pmROTFLMAO!
I have a Bersa Thunder 380 that I bought from one of my husband’s co-workers. He had to sell it, needed some cash. I’ve not fired it yet, I need to so I know what to expect. I was in the military for 20 years so I’ve been qualified in other weapons, but the first time you fire a weapon shouldn’t be when you actually need it.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:00 pmIf you know anyone who owns guns ask if you can go to the range with them. Or see if there is a range that rents out guns. In a nutshell. The “best” gun for you is the one you feel comfortable with. If you can handle it well, and aren’t afraid to shoot it, and spend enough time in practice so you’re sure you can hit what you aim at. You found your gun.
Down the road, if you want you can get more or bigger ones.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:30 pmGood luck and good shooting.
Jjs-if you are available on Saturday, hubby and I will be at the range. Click my name-that really is me in the profile pick. He will be the one with the violin case. We are hard to miss. I will have my 357, we are looking at a 38. I’m sure between us and our fave sales guy we could find something you might like. They can get expensive, but at least you’d know what you were saving for. Maybe see you Saturday
March 13th, 2008 at 10:45 pmI agree you should try out several see what does fit, most guns also come in seveal different size frames, you may find a frame that fits you better then others, in adddition to the kahr you may want to check out the S&W M&P series, they look like a narrow frame gun also, you probably would be more comfortable with a 9mm rather then the larger .40, but if you get federal hydroshock that should just about make up for the smaller round. And while your at it check putting a laser on it, from crimsontrace, that little red dot on a bad guy is a big intimidation factor if the gun doesn’t already initmidate them.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:25 pmMaybe I really do need to get out of California. I mean, I haven’t encountered a lot of women with guns out here. When my buddy moved in with his girlfriend, she made him keep his guns in the garage. Granted, between him and his dad they could stock a small armory, but she objects to even a single shotgun or pistol inside. And they don’t (and never will) have kids. I don’t get it. I guess she really does figure “it can’t happen to me.”
March 14th, 2008 at 12:07 amOT, but Rachel, don’t forget, today is March 14th. It’s Steak and a Blowjob Day.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:16 amjjs–what Ed said. The best gun for you is the one you are comfortable with, and can hit what you’re aiming at with it while under stress. If it’s too big for you, you won’t practice enough to get comfortable. If you can’t hit what you shoot at, or hesitate or flinch when you should be shooting, it’s not going to do you much good. So find out what you’re comfortable with.
When my (5′ even, very small hands) wife qualified for her CCW she used her little Beretta .25 for the range test. The instructor sneered at the small caliber, then quit sneering when she put 7 rounds in the X-ring in three seconds at 15 feet, reloaded, and did it again. Yeah, a larger caliber would be more effective, but for her it’s a fine carry gun, easy to conceal, comfortable to fire, and startlingly accurate. Beats hell out of pepper spray.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:00 amIt’s like seeing Einstein turn into Corky the Retard right before your eyes.
- Mountain Dew, meet flat panel monitor.
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
- testicles meet uvula, or something.
That’s some funny $hit.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:24 amOh hell yeah. That line is so perfect that I’m going to steal it!
Mikey
March 14th, 2008 at 5:44 amsounds good jennifer. i might just have to take you up on that offer. but when might you be there? i left two comments on your website, but deleted them because i’m stupid and shy like that. but in the end, i know i have time to look around, since i’ll be graduating in 3 point some years, so i have a little time
March 14th, 2008 at 6:04 amI plan to be there early afternoon. I promise, I’m friendly. If you leave a comment, it emails me directly on my Blackberry. I’ll reply with a phone number. Just don’t really want to post that online.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:31 amI promise, I’m friendly.
ok, apparently I can’t just respond on those comments. Hmm. You can email me at jennifer AT hastonline DOT com
March 14th, 2008 at 7:36 amI grew up in Massachusetts . . . . so yeah I was one of those people. It’s just the way everyone thinks and you don’t really question it too much. Now I live in Texas. Still I thought my husbands guys were a *bit* much (handgun, shotgun & AK) until Katrina & Rita. Those who stayed in their houses needed a way to defend themselves and the police just can’t. And the liberals who didn’t have guns were borrowing them from neighbors who did. Even though Rita ended up missing Houston it was damn spooky, the city was almost empty; I was very glad we had the guns.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:58 amDearRachel,
There would be no need for private citizens to carry a gun if we would only take guns away from the police.
I know this is true, because the Code Pink gal said so in the video your group debated yesterday.
I concur that jjs should go to a gun store and hold many guns until she finds one (hopefully a few so she has a range of choices) that feels right. I got multiple handguns of varying calibers, but there are two in particular that “just feel right.” One is a 38 revolver and the other is a Star 9mm. If I had to grab a pistol in a hurry, it would probably be one of these.
Here in VA we have Evil Gun Shows ™ so we can handle lots of firearms and get them cheaper than in gun stores. fwiw. But I think there is a plus to having a friendly dealer in a neighborhood store show you how to handle the things if you have no alternate instructor.
mike
March 14th, 2008 at 8:07 amAll the coolest shooter chicks hang out here.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:14 amJoin us - but be fair warned, we expect cookies and coffee as NoobOffering.
If that were at all true, why would I be carrying a S&W snubby rather than a Desert Eagle?
I see several folks have recommended Bersas. Several of my female friends carry these and they all like them. Especially nice for small hands is their Ultra Compact, which is available in 9mm, .40, and .45.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:26 amRachel, you can keep pretty close track of the Supremes by visiting SCOTUSblog.com the case you are looking for is HELLER. Also, Clayton Cramer is following the case closely on his blog.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:30 amJJS - what everyone else said.
I bought my first gun, a CZ 9 mm, at a gun show. I picked it because it just felt right in my hands, even though it was bigger than many others. I probably handled 100 guns that day and it was the one that just felt right.
Sure enough, took it to the range and nailed the bullseye. I couldn’t do that with my brother’s 9 mm (Taurus? Rick help me out) but I could with the CZ for some reason.
I shot my ex’s long-barrel .357 Magnum, which nearly dislodged my ribcage from my spine. Way too much for me.
.38s, especially the short-barreled ones, are super easy to handle and shoot well, but don’t have quite as much killin’ potential, I suppose. But like someone said on another thread, it’s more important for you to be comfortable with a certain gun and be able to handle it well, than what its caliber is.
My all-time very favorite of my guns is my Buckmark Camper .22 pistol. OH HOW I LOVE IT. It’s not for self-defense, it’s purely for fun. Hardly any kick at all and I could probably write my name with bullet holes on a target with that one. In fact I think I’ll try and post the results here. Rupert and I might go to the range before he ships out.
Oh and you can trust Jennifer, and you should take her up on her offer! I highly recommend it. If I lived near her, I’d make her go shooting with me all the time; I think I could learn from her.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:08 amUm, ain’t you a girl type person?
March 14th, 2008 at 9:15 amAnd THAT, my dear Rachel, caused me to stuff my fist in my mouth so I wouldn’t disturb my co-workers with my cackling laughter.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:17 amBrowning Hi-Power, just likey this one. My wife likes this pistol quite a bit, and she is proficient with it.
My wife also has a Buckmark .22, but the standard model, and it’s her favorite too. She keeps it loaded in our second bathroom as a back-up go-to piece if she can’t get to the Hi-Power in the bedroom. I know .22 is far from an optimal self defense cartridge, but the Buckmark holds ten rounds, and ten hits of .22-LR from close range will ruin anyones home invasion. I don’t worry too much.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:50 amI carry a Springfield Compact XD in .45 myself.
Definitely handle as many as you can and find one you are most comfortable with; it’s far more important than the caliber (though if possible I wouldn’t go below a .38). JJS, you said your elbows don’t like recoil, so one thing to keep in mind is the heavier the gun at a given caliber, the lower the recoil.
Also, plan out how you intend to carry & draw under duress. Discovering at the moment of need that your weapon is hard to draw from it’s location is not a good thing! And practice whenever you get the chance. Under stress, muscle memory will take over and make self-defense much easier, provided you’ve given them something to remember.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:54 amDearRachel,
Dont forget that jjs can address many of the issues of stopping power and collateral damage by the type and load of ammo she uses. Comfort in handling the weapon itself is crucial in attaining accuracy, speed and confidence (as you have experienced). So she should not be overly concerned if she gets a weapon that is “too small caliber.” (unless she grabs a .22 which is just too small, whatever you put into it). ‘Cause she can pump more high-grain, frangible bullets into a bad guy with a gun that feels good than otherwise.
And she shouldnt default to a semi-auto either. I am significantly better with my 38 revolvers than with any of my semi-automatics. (I shot “Expert” with the 9mm, btw).
Very respectfully
March 14th, 2008 at 10:00 ammike
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to take my daughter to her “gun-free zone” school.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:15 amDearRachel,
Imperial Brother Rick’s post about his wife’s .22 came up after my post saying in part that .22’s are just too small. I thought I should attempt to pre-empt any LukisRage (R).
I have a friend whose sister is an Emergency Room surgeon in Miami. She has handled cases where people (always men) have been shot at close range with .22s without serious effects. Several instances where the bullet penetrated the scalp but not the skull, as well as instances where it penetrated the skin but failed to penetrate the breastbone.
I think a .22 is just too small. But aim for the face, I would guess.
Basking in your reflected Awesomeness,
March 14th, 2008 at 10:17 ammike
DearRachel,
these “thoughtful, supposedly intelligent” people that you speak of are usually exactly the same idjits that believe momma gov’mint can and should take care of ALL our little problems. And those of us who do actually have brains (conservatives) know that is as far away from reality as it’s possible to be. After all, big gubmint LOVES criminals and illegal aliens and such, as it keeps them employed and growing. Guns are very dangerous to big gubmint, since it really, really hates the public able to defend itself.
jjs … my petite wife is also 5′2″ and has very small hands, and she loves her LadySmith. I’m not a real S&W fan, but she had it long before we got married, so I let her be. As everyone else has said … guns are something that have to work for YOU. So you need to hold a whole bunch until you can single out the ones that feel best to you, and then you need to fire them to find what IS you. There is absolutely no replacement or alternative to “personalizing”.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:29 amjjs
March 14th, 2008 at 10:31 amI’ll second the Springfield Arms XD That Raving Lunatic suggests. I always shot a Glock 9 mm at the range as the 40 cal cop version wouldn’t fit my hand very well. Then they had me try the XD and the 40 cal was actually smaller grip feel, due to the cut design on the thumb/forfinger back part of the grip. I actually went up to a .45 ACP and found I got less recoil, and better control than the Glock 9mm. The XD trigger is a fairly easy pull due to the design of the internals. The cycling basically cocks the gun completely and when you pull the trigger all you are doing is releasing the firing pin. Its a nice piece, I plan to buy one sometime in the fall before the elections. (just in case we get Clintion or Obama in office, I figure gun laws will radically change if one of those 2 get into office.)
Poo, I just typed a long comment and my IE locked up. Let’s see if I can remember what I wrote.
Hey mike, no rage from me here. You made a good point and I want to qualify my previous comment.
In no way am I recommending that anyone choose .22 calibre for defensive gun unless you cannot handle anything at all larger. And my wifes .22 in the bathroom is strictly for the rare chance of being caught flat-footed in a vulnerable condition. Any gun is better than no gun, always.
There is a certain amount of chance and probability involved in stopping an attacker with a gun, especially with smaller calibres. Shot placement, size of the hole, and number of hits can all increase your chance of success. The 10 shot capacity of the Buckmark is important and is the reason I made a point of stating it. When something has a lower probability of success you can increase your overall chance of success by doing it more times, right? I expect my wife to fire all ten into the face or guts of an intruder if she has to use the buckmark. With her level of proficiency and comfort with that gun I expect she will be able to land a majority of the shots on the bad guy. This is in the same catagory as in the previous discussion about fighting off an attacker: do as much damage to him as you possibly can until you can get away. Even if that doesn’t drop the guy, it ought to distract or slow him enough for her to get her hands on the 9mm, or even better to get the shotgun out of the closet.
My wife has worked in the emergency department of the county trauma center for many years, and she has seen many of the same things related by your friends sister. But one thing about anecdotes from ERs is that those stories have a selection bias. The only people who are treated for gunshots at the ER are the ones who actually survive the initial shooting. So does the number of folks coming in who’ve had a .22 bounce off their skull support the idea that .22 sucks or does it mean that the .22 is the most commonly used cartridge and those guys are just the lucky percentage who walked away? I dunno, I suspect it’s a little of both.
For the young woman thinking about getting a handgun, I’ll reiterate what all the others have said. Put your hands on as many guns as you can, and shoot as many as you can before you pick a model.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:54 amWhat if gun ownership was banned… would that mean that we could sue whatever police agency had jurisdiction of where we were if we ever became the victim of a crime? It would only be fair, right? If I’m walking down the street one night, unable to defend myself against an armed assailant, seems like I should be able to hold the police responsible for failing to defend me. 10 million in damages sounds about right…
March 14th, 2008 at 12:03 pmReading the above posts only goes to show that the GUN is the great equalizer in society. All you 110 pound, 5′4″ women out there wouldn’t have a snow ball’s chance in hell against some big thug who was intent on raping or murdering you. It doesn’t matter how thick your neck is or how big around your biceps are, a small piece of lead travelling around 1000 fps is going to be your ticket to the long, dark slumber.
Oh, and for the record… I have an AK-47 (cause a mag filled with 30 rounds of 7.62×39 pretty much trumps everything a bad guy might throw my way), a .300 win mag (cause elk tastes soooo good), and H&K .40 for my side arm (not too concealable unfortunately) and my wife packs a Stoeger Cougar 8000 in 9mm (damn its hot watching her shoot bottles and cans) and neither one of us has an issue with penis size.
OMG, what Rick said. In spades. Any gun is better than none, placement counts, and even having a .22 ring off an attacker’s skull without killing them is going to slow them way the hell down, much like slapping them upside the head with a hammer will. As will a few shots in the belly and diaphragm. This lets you run away. Your purpose is not to kill the attacker, your purpose is to survive the encounter and hopefully get away intact. Attack/disable/retreat.
A point of importance to add. There are guns you have for concealed carry, and then there are guns you have for general self-defense. While they can certainly be the same gun if you only want (or can only afford) one, or can only manage the time and effort to be proficient with one, what you have the gun for makes a major difference. At home my wife would NOT grab her Beretta .25 first unless it was just at hand. Given a moment to choose and prepare she’d grab the 12 ga. Upland or the 6″ S&W Model 27 .357 with the Hogue grips. Both of which she can handle just fine with two hands, but neither of which exactly conceal well. The Beretta .25 is her choice for a concealed carry piece because it’s what handles best for her that she can comfortably carry and conceal and quickly deploy.
If you’re buying strictly for home defense and aren’t going to carry concealed, larger-framed guns are definitely more comfortable to shoot and more accurate at any given caliber. A Model 27 6″ in .357 is a lot easier on the hands and wrists than a Model 60 2″ in .357, any day. And more accurate. A Buckmark or Ruger .22 versus a Beretta Model 21, same deal.
Oh, and as anyone who has EVER been on the wrong end of a gun can attest, when it’s pointed at you, ALL gun barrels are large enough to drive a truck into.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:03 pmthanks everyone!
very very helpful. and jennifer, check your email, i just sent you one.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWhat if gun ownership was banned… would that mean that we could sue whatever police agency had jurisdiction of where we were if we ever became the victim of a crime?
The courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have NO specific duty to protect individuals from crime. There are a few exceptions (such as informants and people in police custody) but that’s the general rule for lawsuits. If you call 911 and they don’t show, too bad for you.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pmTully - I guess then that if guns were banned, we’d have to sue Congress for taking away our chances at self-defense. Good luck on that one, huh?
March 14th, 2008 at 1:11 pmFor whatever reason I have collected a lot of guns over my lifetime. A .300 Mag down to .22. Blackpowder (.57 Cal), 3 compound bows and over a dozen shotguns. I have my grandfathers saddle rifle…a sweet lever action Winchester 30-30. But I don’t own a single handgun. I’ve shot them, hunted with them but never owned one. It’s just struck me as a bit odd..is all.
Loved marla’s story…
March 14th, 2008 at 1:12 pmthats my point… anybody who believes that guns should be banned should then also be in support of opening up litigation against the police and the state for criminal neglect. It makes perfect sense in a convoluted, mental-contortionist sort of way that only the liberal mind is capable of grasping. Well, unless you’re a Code Pink Pinko… Its the police that are responsible for crime in the first place.
And rape victims CAUSE rape. Murder victims CAUSE murder….and so on, and so on… just so long as Americans in general are always blamed for any problem in the world and the rich white people are always blamed for domestic issues, which coincidentally, are the only absolutes in which a liberal will stick to, everything else is a shade of gray.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:16 pmI wish we could be everywhere the bad guys are, all the time, but it just ain’t happenin’. We do strive to be only minutes away, but most violent encounters take place in a matter of seconds. As a result, usually we can only take the report and look for the suspects.
Too Right. But reading this and other comments here reminded me of another gripe I have against the gun-banners. When someone tells me that I should be disarmed because protecting against crime should be left to the “trained professionals,” I always want to give them a good slapping.
I mean, what makes a person think that someone else (trained cop or otherwise) would or should be willing to risk life and limb to protect them when they won’t lift a finger of their own to protect themselves?
Let’s leave aside the fact that there are plenty of folks who are willing to protect the self-made helpless mases (cops, firefighter, soldiers, et al); that admirable fact in no way excuses the bastards that don’t value their safety enough to defend it themselves, yet nevertheless expect others to value it more than their own well-being and stand in the line of fire on their behalf. That is a level of fecklessness that I’m finding harder and harder to tolerate.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:03 pmIf gun ownership were banned?
You would have the situation I live in. You might think to resort to other weapons. However they are all under suspicion in the UK. I think it isn’t possible to legally buy long edged weapons any more. Certainly you cannot legally carry a penknife anymore. I used to always have a penknife as a child.
Burglary is rife, and burglars generally don’t care whether the house is occupied. Often they will knock at the door to save having to break in, then stab whoever answers. Some burglars go straight to the kitchen and get a knife from there first so they can claim “self defense” if they stab the occupants as they did not arrive armed.
So I am left with golf clubs / cricket bat, but they need room to be effective.
I have a 4lb club hammer, nasty.
A bill hook, it will take your arm off. (Agricultural implements appear to have escaped notice. I guess your urban ‘liberals’ don’t do any gardening.)
These can be left around the place in ways that can be reasonably excused.
The real problem is that the police here seem determined to prosecute anyone who defends themselves. I would still rather be in prison than killed by a burglar.
Shame that for someone who is physically smaller or weaker than an intruder there is no possibility of an “equaliser”. If you do manage to harm a burglar you may well get sued by them.
Guns are available here, but not legally. A 12 year old was relieved of a handgun a couple of hundred yards from my house 3 months ago, apparently his friend ratted him out. Shots were fired on the main road nearby recently.
As for police being the professionals I quote Robert Peel:
the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen, in the interests of community welfare and existence
Sorry for the rant
thought you might enjoy the comparison.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:20 pmActually I believe a “Security by Sam Colt” sign in my front yard would probably be better than a “Security by {insert name of security monitoring company}” sign.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:45 pmThere’s one other thing to consider about the .22. What everyone says is true, but look at it this way. Most thugs, on mere sight of the gun, are going to hot foot it. This is, of course, assuming that they are in their right mind.
There’s the rub.
Someone who is high or drunk is not in their right mind, nor are they feeling a lot of pain. And they aren’t likely to run. So, while you may put 10 rounds dead center of his chest with a .22, his breast bone might be whining about it, but he won’t. (Another thing; shooting at passive stationary paper targets is a world of difference from shooting a living breathing moving target trying to harm or kill you).
The whole point of shooting in self defense is to disable the attacker; if it kills him, tough shit for him. A .22 just won’t disable anyone unless you get that one in a million lucky shot.
As said, anything is better than nothing, and it’s probable that it’s existence alone will deter a thug. But if you can handle it at all, get a heavier caliber.
And, I can not stress it enough, take classes in self defense shooting. You’ll be amazed at what you can learn (and don’t be shy about it! Professionals will always be happy to help you along; it’s what they are there for!)
If you’re in NC, anyone, I highly recommend Personal Defense & Handgun Safety Center in Raleigh. Go Shoot!
March 14th, 2008 at 2:56 pmSomebody once made the comment: You may not believe in God, and you may not believe in guns. But when somebody is kicking your door in at 03:00 AM you’re going to call somebody with a gun and pray they get there on time.
Seeing hypocrisy as a bad thing, this pretty much cinched the issue for me. It is immoral to refuse to defend yourself, your family and your neighbors and yet call somebody else to risk their life and do it for you. Just thinking about it raises my ire.
Now that the honest citizens have been separated from worthless, it is also responsible to get training. You need to know how and when to use a weapon. You don’t want to hurt somebody in your own family do you? A gun is just a tool, you need to know how to use it correctly for your own as well as others protection.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pmIf any women in the North Dallas area need help picking out a gun or want to meet another woman at a range for the first time shooting, just drop me an email. We’re members at the DFW Range in Dallas (indoor) or TDSA (outdoor) (30 miles south of Dallas). I would most likely bring Kim (husband) along as he knows more than I do. We can meet at the range, a gun show, or at some other public place so you’d feel safe.
We live for this, so don’t hesitate to ask for help if we can help.
Email is: themrs -at- mrsdutoit -dot- com
March 14th, 2008 at 4:50 pmI second the recommendation for Kahr pistols. They are the most narrow out there, one and one-sixteenth an inch, small but serious, in 9mm, .40 and .45. My wife will carry our CW9 someday soon. I’m with you on the CZ’s Rachel, mine is a P-01. Really comfy to the hand.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:23 pm“Doesn’t it boggle your mind to know that there are still supposedly intelligent, thoughtful people who truly believe that having a gun in the house is pointless, silly, too dangerous, and nothing but proof that you’re a jackass with a small-penis complex?”
You can lead people to facts, but you can’t make ‘em think.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:52 pmjjs,
March 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pmI am late to this party, but I live in Fla where it is HOT. I prefer my Kimber ultra carry 45, but sometimes the I cannot carry the kimber, that said I love my Kahr PM-9 . It has a little more stopping power than the bersa, and is the same size. (I have a bud that carries a bersa, and his GF loves it) Everyone above has given good advice, so go pick what works for you even if it is a .22
As a former light infantryman and now a military police officer, please hear my advice as someone with the experience to give an informed opinion. The previous commenters could not be more correct. Go for the largest caliber handgun you can handle. If not, try a shotgun. You are brandishing a weapon in the hopes that the attacker will make a rational decision to leave. If not, you are brandishing a weapon to kill the attacker before he/she can harm you or your loved ones. The “kachook” sound of a pump shotgun has saved untold scores of homeowners from harm. The size of a weapon has a message that cannot be mistaken.
If you must shoot someone, the first shot needs to be capable of killing someone. It must be able to penetrate and cause enough damage to vital organs that the person will simply drop on the spot. The larger the caliber, the more likely this will happen. Also, a poorly placed shot from a large caliber bullet will more likely cause significant injury and led to death. With smaller calibers, the accuracy required under the worst conditions is too great. It is dark, you don’t have your contacts in, the person is rushing towards you, the doorway is cramped, etc…
This is a far cry from shooting on the range. Don’t worry so much about hand size. Worry about getting the largest gun you can handle. This is not a tool you will use 8 hours a day and suffer carpal tunnel from using. This is a tool that you will use rarely and must work immediately. Be willing to sacrifice more on comfort to gain lethality. Do not worry about magazine size. You are not fending off a pack of attackers. 5-6 rounds is all that is needed. You drop the first guy in the doorway and the others will decide that they need to leave. Accuracy beyond 25 ft is irrelevant. You are shooting inside your home, from your car, into your backyard. This is not a exhibition shooting moment where targets will be placed at known distances. You are shooting in a real environment. Hitting the 300 meter target is not necessary for home defense.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:55 pmTo condense this down to concise advice for the ladies…
In general, bigger is better, unless it’s so big it hurts. But in specific, it’s the skill with which it’s used that really counts the most. As big as you’re comfortable with, used skillfully, is ideal.
Oh, we were talking about firearms? Still applies.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:50 pm“I said I never had much use for ‘em. Never said I didn’t know how to use ‘em.”
On to the main topic at hand. First question I ask anyone who asks me about getting a handgun is how comfortable they are with taking something apart & putting it back together again. (For the record, I ask this of both men & women. You’d be suprised how many guys aren’t comfortable with it.) If you aren’t comfortable with that, then a revolver will be your best choice. Primary choices for that will be Taurus, Ruger, or Smith & Wesson. The Tauruses are basically S&Ws made in Brazil on equipment they nationalized from S&W back in the ’70s. Fit & finish isn’t as nice as on the Smiths, but they work. Rugers tend to be a bit heavier than similar models of Taurus or Smith, so if you’re worried about recoil, they might be your best choice. S&Ws will have the best triggers. I’m probably more accurate shooting my 686 in single-action more than I am with my AK clone. You’ll also see revolvers from Rossi & Armscorps. Unless you’re on a very tight budget, I’d give them a pass. Rossi is kind of the Hi-Point of the revolver world (but have been around forever), and Armscorps is a new company which makes a Phillipino knock-off of the Colt Detective Special.
With automatics, I’m partial to Kel-Tec’s mouseguns. I’ve got a 1st gen P-32 which has been a near constant companion since Katrina. (If I’m dressed, sober, and not at work, I probably have it on me. Prior to the storm, it usually was in my glovebox.) They make them in .32, .380, and two models in 9×19mm. Being tiny & light, the recoil is a bit sharp, but quite manageable. Ruger is now making a near-copy of the Kel-Tec P3AT .380 ACP. If you’re on a budget and worried about recoil, I’d suggest a Makrov in 9×18mm. This is the post-WWII Soviet service pistol. Only down-side to them is that the ammo can be hard to find. You’d have to go to an actual gun store or online, and not Wally-World. There’s also fewer defensive loadings available as their idea of 9mm was a few hundredeths of an inch larger than what we use.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:35 amPart of the problem with guns, IMO, is that ‘way too many of them (semi-auto pistols in particular) were originally designed for the military—and a soldier is not a civilian. They have different needs, and a soldier is, by definition, young, probably male and in-shape…none of which applies to civilians. (And yes, I do know that there are many female military members; I’m speaking in generalities here. Also, the huge surge of female military members is relatively recent, and many military weapons date from well before that.)
A soldier, particularly in a war zone, doesn’t have to worry about keeping his pistol concealed. While I’d much prefer to have it different, the current custom is strongly against open carry for civilians in most places, even here in the US. A lot of pistols that would be wonderful for self-defense are very difficult to carry concealed. *pausing to contemplate the beauties of a world where I could carry a .44 AutoMag openly*
Also, women’s hands work rather differently than men’s do, which also affects which firearm is optimal. (Try making a fist, then asking the nearest member of the opposite sex to make a fist. In most cases, a man and a woman’s fist are not alike at all.) And most women have a lot less upper-body strength than men do, which, again, affects their choice of weapon.
When the gun companies start designing pistols with women in mind, I think that it’ll be all but “game over” for the anti-gun types.
I will admit, also, that I’ve never understood the animus that so many left-of-center types have for private ownership of firearms. Do they really want to live in a world where they don’t have guns, but the cops (aka the “forces of oppression”) do?
March 15th, 2008 at 11:56 amHere in Israel we carry guns to defend ourselves. We carry openly everywhere. And if you care to see the results of our non-Gun Free Zones, look here and here.
DoubleTapper
March 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pmdoubletapper@gmail.com
http://doubletapper.blogspot.com
DoubleTapper, blogging on Guns, Politics, and Defense from Israel
Dang, I love that movie. Gotta go watch it again.
March 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pmDespite all of the negative comments about .22’s for home/personal defense, the “.22 mag” (.22wmr) at 20 yards and less is more than sufficient to incapacitate an intruder. The light recoil and small frames (usually) makes it a good choice for smaller hands.
March 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pmRachel, D.C. v Heller case opens on Tuesday the 18th of March.
You can visit my blog for more information or visit the NRA-ILA website set up to follow the case,
Best of wishes to you and Rupert, been in the sand pit long about 5 years now, both up north and in Kuwait, try to not fret too much, it is not as bad as the Lamestream Media wants us all to think.
March 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm“Lamestream Media” Ha! Good one.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:28 am