The stupidest thing you have ever heard a college student say…
…the bar for which is pretty freakin’ high.
Army of Dog, Jennifer Hast, and David Colborne, three of my favorite bloggers, all hit this article yesterday and I missed it in all my busy important business.
Ladies and gentleman, behold what is possibly the single most idiotic quote of all time, in an article about Dallas college kids protesting at City Hall on the anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre, against allowing permits for some people to legally carry guns on campuses:
“School is not a place for guns. We have campus police and Dallas police available for our protection,” [said student president Ashley Holmes in a news release.]
When I take over Earth, I will require all college students to attempt to work a series of written logic puzzles. If they cannot successfully complete them, they will be stripped of their free speech rights and voting rights until they can prove they’re not clinically retarded. It just makes sense.
I’m pretty sure Ashley Holmes would fall in to the FAIL category in my testing schematics. Her ability to say with a straight face that the police are there for her protection is remarkably impressive, however, and I am sure she could pursue a successful career in Democrat politics or possibly Hollywood. Brains are clearly not her strong suit but you have to work with what God gave you, and to Ashley he gave the stunning talent of being able to self-satirize so un-ironically that it actually makes people gasp aloud in awe and wonder. Not many people can pull that off; usually the weight of the stupidness overwhelms and confuses the senses, making one giggle embarrassedly to ensure that listeners don’t really think one is serious. Not our Ashley!
I say this with all sincerity: I truly hope that girl never is attacked at school or anywhere else, because I don’t think it’d work out very well for her. Oh noes! I will just close my eyes and hold my breath until the po-po get here. Surely they will arrive and save me from this person screaming and shooting other students before he does anything really crazy. Surely. Surely? Po-po? Po….Po?…damn I’m gonna die.
Sounds like Ashley’s never had to wait what seems like an eternity when there is some threat.
Having that experience is what changed my mind.
I’d been ambivalent about having a gun in the house - until the dogs awakened me barking at 2am. I saw someone leaning up against my front door. I said I’m calling the police, I did and they arrived in 4 minutes. Really a pretty good response time.
I thought they would never get there - and I realized how much could have happened while I was waiting for the police to protect me.
That weekend I made my first visit to a range.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:53 amWhen was the last time anyone called 911 on their cell phone and got through to a dispatcher in less than 10 min? {crickets}
When I see a wreck or a road hazard I don’t even bother calling 911 anymore. I’ll be in the next county by the time someone answers.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:00 pmDear Ashley:
What is it exactly that police carry in order to protect you.
Go ahead, you can say it. We all already know the answer.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pmI do hope that everyone realizes that the majority of Americans do not own guns. Many people beleive the same as Ashley, that the police are their for their protection, as well as realizing that the majority of Americans wont attack you if you are simply minding your own business. I have no problem with guns or gun owners, I have a few myself. However I dont consider those that dont own guns and believe that the police are there for protection to be stupid or naive.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pmPolice are not here for your protection.
There are here as a reminder that the state can fuck with you at will if it wishes.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pmWhen you give your daughter a name that ends with an -e sound (Candi, Britney, Ashley), well, you’re pretty much dooming them to a life without brains or common sense.
Let this be a lesson to all parents out there. Stop naming your daughters after your favorite strippers!
(This public announcement has been brought to you by the Space Pope.)
April 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pmAshley doesn’t think because she doesn’t need to. There lot of people who are eager do her thinking for her. Parents. Teachers. Politicians. Children say dopey things. Smile and accept that. Of course, fight like hell any public policy based on their inane worldview.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmOK whats up, I’ll clarify:
People who believe that the police are adequate protection are stupid and naïve. Does that help?
April 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmYa, see we need to understand two words: proactive and reactive. Unfortunately for young Ashley the police are typically a reactive force. If she has to call for their help it’s already too late. Owning a firearm is proactive or taking responsibility for YOURSELF.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmAround here the police recommend that people put the non-emergency police number in their cell phones as 911 from a cell phone does not go through to the local police, it goes to the state police and takes forever. I have the numbers for local police forces in my cell. I had to use it once and got right through.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pmIn Atlanta, and surrounding counties, you can expect to be on hold for a long time. Minutes.
And minutes, when someone’s kicking in the front door, you don’t have.
Her teachers must be proud. She’s bought all the drivel they’ve been pouring into her empty head.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pm*sigh*
Amazing Beliefs:
That the proper response to an attack is to call the police, but only unarmed police, because “Violence never settles anything.”
That you should rely on police in lieu of your gun, just as you should rely on a dentist in lieu of your toothbrush.
That police arriving at 80mph are a better way to stop criminals than bullets arriving at 800mph.
That a criminal is somehow more of a threat to a cop than to a regular person, so police need guns and regular citizens don’t.
That police and soldiers are the dregs of society who were unfit to get any real job, which perfectly qualifies them with the high moral standards and keen intellects to handle these complicated tools and be our guardians.
That guns are not an effective means of self-defense, which is why police carry them.
That if a violent criminal enters your house, you should do nothing and wait for the police arrive, just as you’d do nothing for an injury or fire and wait for the fire truck or the ambulance.
That a woman being raped should refuse help from an armed stranger, and instead wait for the police.
That citizens don’t need to carry a gun for personal protection but desk-bound police administrators who work in a building filled with cops do, as do tax auditors, vegetable inspectors, mail inspectors, and meat inspectors.
(This generous donation of facts and logic was brought to you by Michael Z. Williamson.)
April 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pmIt reminds me of the rather new saying, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
Our city has a very good police force that responds quickly, but even so, you sometimes don’t even have one minute, let alone six.
It’s this college mindset that gave us the “he’s reloading, run!” mentality. If the bastard’s reloading, fuck his shit up. Is that such a foreign concept that nobody thinks of it?
April 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pmmightysamurai Says:
Mighty, I agree with your post, however perhaps its time that you had a talk with the local police dept then. Many police and police depts give out the advice that you should do just what you are railing against. They advise that when being mugged or robbed to not resist and simply give the mugger (or robber) what they want and the majority of the time they will leave you alone. Is this advice something that you would follow, and if not, why not?
April 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm-Robert A. Heinlein - The Number of the Beast
April 18th, 2008 at 12:41 pm…and then he will do the same to someone else tomorrow. Pretty cold of you, there, whats up
Ineffective resistance is probably stupid. Effective resistance, like shooting the bastard, is pretty smart.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pmHey! My sister’s name ends in an “e” sound (Shelby), and I consider her to be a pretty bright 15-year-old. Of course, she has three older siblings (one of them an Army captain) and married parents who are raising her, so maybe that has more to do with it.
Oh, and she’s already been out shooting.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pmCarbo Says:
So are you saying that the police are giving bad advice? Should the police be telling everyone to take the law into their own hands and simply shoot anyone that they think is mugging someone?
April 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pmNot that anyone asked, exactly, but I think we are way past illogical, nonlogical, and stupid.
We are deep into institutionalized psychosis (patent pending) where not merely two persons operate in a comforting delusional system (folie a deux)…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_à_deux
…but a whole social class shares a set of bizarre Sociology 100 assumptions (people are basically good) and methods (Psych 101. Everything can be handled via some form of therapy. See Phillip Reiff. The Triumph of the Therapeutic. He predicted this 30 years ago.)
I’ve had women students dismiss my pleas that they “For Christ’s sake. Get a 12 gauge shotgun, will ya? Just down the road at Jim’s Pawn and Gun.”—even though their apt had been invaded the day before by a couple of punks.
Same thing. My protection is someone else’s job.
This kind of nuttiness requires that persons refuse to acknowledge uncomfortable facts = no short term memory.
“Hey, idiots! The cops weren’t there to protect you YESTERDAY! What more data do you need!?”
Even the geese are silent.
http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=macgregor&book=rome&story=geese
April 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pmFavorite *blush*
April 18th, 2008 at 12:56 pmI think its moron college student week. College is now an institute of higher moonbattery.
I would dispute your statement, in the strongest possible terms.
If you said some police advise against resisting your assailant and just ‘giving him what he wants’, I might agree with you, for the ‘advice’ you refer to is far from universal and is not supported by statistical evidence.
Finally, if you said cops in big cities and other GFW places that take a generally take a dim view of an armed citizenry anyway, etc., etc. I would agree with you, because I have found it to be true - whether the cop really believes it or because he just wants to keep his job.
(Keep in mind that these statements usually come from chiefs, assistant chiefs - who are, by definition of their position, politicians - ’spokesmen’ and other bureaucrats. Talk to a street cop and I bet you’ll get a very different story.)
April 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pmThis is a great example of what makes Rachel such a great read. She’s unique.
That and the dogs. OK, mostly the dogs.
Regarding the dimbulbs that are whining about the baad, eevil gunz - You have to take personal responsibility, not only for your actions, but for your own life. Funny how the Ashleys of the world want a personal protection detail from law enforcement on one hand, and then rail against them on the other. Just part of being a teenager in your 20s I guess.
Oh, and someone has to say it:
“When seconds count, the police are minutes away.”
Oops, someone already said it! (must type faster)
Aaaand, just remembered, they’ve graduated from naming their kids after strippers, to naming them after porn stars.
Ew.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pmAt the university where I work, they attempted to institute a ban on guns on campus, and when this was reported in the newspaper, a left-leaning coworker came to me to get the token conservative viewpoint, and asked “How can anyone be opposed to this?”
My response: “Because it doesn’t matter.” Someone with plans to shoot up a school isn’t going to stop because of a campus-wide ban on guns. And someone who cares more about his/her protection than some silly rule isn’t going to stop carrying either.
But, regardless of my response, the telling part was that she simply could not envision how anyone would disagree with such a measure. This is what we’re up against.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pmrocinante Says:
I appreciate that you want to dispute my statement, however do you have a statement made by a police officer that proves your point. Note that I am fine with even a street cop saying this, I have just never heard it, could you point me in the site or city where this was said. Also brings up another point, if you shoot someone and kill them who you think was robbing you or someone else and you were wrong could you be held for wrongfull death or something worse?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pmJeebus f*ck.
Yes, some police are giving bad advice.
Defending your own life and the lives of others is NOT “taking the law into your own hands”.
Self-defense is still perfectly legal in most places. All we’re talking about is whether or not law-abiding people who have submitted to a background check should have legal access to their tool of choice for self-defense in places that have been proven to be target rich environments for murderous sociopaths.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:06 pmwhats up,
The only time I’ve heard policemen counsel docility is when you are already doomed to victimhood, i.e. defenseless.
This discussion is about thoughtful, rational, premeditated self-defense. I’ve never heard a good cop discourage that.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:08 pmOK:
It may take me a few minutes to do the research, but I am confident I can point you to multiple public statements by law-enforcement professionals favoring armed self-defense by private citizens, as well as at least one study (Wellesley College, I believe) that found, contrary to the conventional wisdom, that women who vigorously resisted their assailants were much less likely to be killed or seriously injured than those they did not.
Basically, predators like ‘easy’ victims. Muggers want ‘free’ money. If you make a fuss, or threaten to make them pay too high a price for your watch, your wallet and a thrill, they’ll go elsewhere.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHey, Oatworm, try making “Bonnie” into anything that doesn’t end in an “E” sound. Bon-Bon? Bone? What do I do? I remain Bonnie. I’m okay with that.
My liberal friend has two daughters. I asked her if she was going to get them self defense training and teach them to shoot, and she said she had no intention of letting them get into any danger.
“In college?” I asked her. “You’re going to protect them in college?” She had no answer, and didn’t talk to me for a while after that. Her poor girls, sent out like rabbits into the world by liberal parents who pretend they can ignore what they do not wish to acknowledge.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pmwhats up:
Anything else the police tell you to do opens them up to litigation when their recommendations don’t result in the best outcome. Submitting to a robber or attacker guarantees a foreseeable negative outcome, protecting the police from lawsuits (at least giving them a solid defense).
I’d bet my guns that many of those same officers give their families different instructions in private. If any do, then it completely devalues any recommendations they give they general public.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pmThis is the truth, I guess its a crapshoot either way. Either you are betting that the mugger wont shoot you if you give him your money, or you are betting that he wont shoot you if you are reaching for your concealed weapon. It would depend on which one you want to bet on.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pmIn my prior incarnation as a material engineer (yeah, geekiness courses through my blood like a fine vintage of Thunderbird), I worked with a couple of guys, one of whom was a marine from the First Gulf War. Both guys were completely anti-gun. I understood one of the guys, being from the UK and all, but I never understood my marine friend being so anti-protection. He always said, “No one should have guns!” When I asked how disarming the public would magically disarm the criminals, he’d simply repeat himself. I never did understand where he was coming from. The other guy though, he was funny in his views:
“Look, people have been disarmed in England and violence has gone way down.”
“Uh, dude? Crime is skyrocketing in the UK.”
::blank stare::
The police are good at drawing the chalk outline around the still warm body. It’s my job to not become a chalk outline.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pmIn a room chock full of rational, articulate women, Oatworm puts his ‘nads on the table in the pursuit of humor.
I have serious respect for that, even as I cup mine with both hands…
April 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pmWhat is truly fascinating about this mind set is that these people equate a citizen carrying a gun to an act of violence.
I’m beginning to wonder if folks on the left are just plain unhinged.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:27 pmThis is the truth, I guess its a crapshoot either way.
Sort of. The consequences (i.e., your chance of being shot) of submission or resistance may not be much different from the point of view of the person being mugged, but they are vastly different from the point of view of the person doing the mugging.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pmActually its not, at least according to the British and their tabulations, however this only covers 06/07, so I guess you would say that in the last two years all crime with the exception of robbery has gone done. Now that is not a fair comparison because it doesnt inclued if the population has gone up or down or what the per capita crime rate is, all of those would be important. However the simple act of commiting the crime with one exception has gone down in the last two years.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pmYES, when they give advice that will reinforce the criminal’s bad behavior.
This is an incredible misinterpretation of anything anyone here has said. It would behoove you to take some gun-based self-defense classes, even if you never decide to go and buy a gun. You would find that you are given instruction not only on hitting a target, but the proper methods of response to different types of threat. Usually, in more documented cases than you would believe, merely showing a gun to someone who appears to be committing a crime will deter them, and no one need be hurt at all. If someone doesn’t back off once you’ve shown that you have such force at hand, THEN things can escalate into a possible shooting event. However, understand that people also shouldn’t go around expecting that just showing a gun will stop everyone, and if they aren’t willing to actually use it if the situation calls for it, then they should not carry a gun.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pmOk, What’s Up, here is a quote from a police officer who commented on this site a while back.
My wife does home daycare, and has had 3 cops as clients. I have discussed gun ownership with all of them, and they all think that it is a good idea for citizens to protect themselves. They fully acknowledge that the cops can’t be everywhere and you really are responsible for you own safety.
Why would you want to submit to being mugged. Is it like the old saying, “if you know that you are going to be raped, just lay back and enjoy it”. Sorry, that’s not my idea of a good time. Your mileage may vary.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pmWayneB Says:
I allready own guns, multiple in fact and have taken three to four classes on their use and when they should be used.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmIn my opinion twenty to thirty bucks is not worth my life. Statistically speaking, giving the money to the mugger is the safest thing to do. Now that doesnt meant that he/she wouldnt just shoot me, very well could happen, that is what you get for living, you might die young, eventually we all die. However I would like to live a little longer and over thirty bucks, I will just let him/her have it.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pmwhats up:
Curious about this. Can you give a link to the stats?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pmHowever I would like to live a little longer and over thirty bucks, I will just let him/her have it.
I’d be inclined to agree. But, if I were a woman who was about to be raped (and possibly killed) or if someone broke into my house and I had no idea what their intentions were…
April 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pmLance, Dr. Sanity has a great post–okay, several great posts– on the level of actual psychological infirmity to which our society is sinking. Check out her blog, if you’re not already a regular reader.
Physics Geek, you got a rare, real LOL out of me for the Fine Vintage…
April 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pmYep sure can, I found it here:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pmhttp://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/crimeew0607.html
I’m not sure the 06/07 data matter much pertaining to guns in the UK. Since guns were essentially banned years before this. The crime rate could be “stabilizing” now (so to speak).
This article from 2001 suggests that handgun violence went up 40% in the two years after the ban.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pmSure, sure, each situation would be its own response and I could certainly see doing something different in those situations. I was simply using the mugging example because that had been what I was talking about.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:59 pmwhats up - I just do not see how you could have asked the second question I quoted if you have taken classes on gun use and safety. Especially when you phrased it to not be specific to personal self-defense, but would have included a judgement call regarding someone else’s safety.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:02 pmJason Says:
I dont know if the 06/07 data even breaks down the crimes into gun versus no gun. I believe it just deals with the crimes being committed wether that be with a knife and gun or anything else
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pmThanks, whats up and Jason.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pmI googled a bit myself and also came up with this from the 26 August 2007 Times. It may be of interest to you.
Here’s one that is not quite as recent (it only goes up to 2006), but it has a breakdown for different types of criminal activity. It shows that while Burglary and “Vehicle and other theft” (which together make up about 75% of the crime reported) is down, Violent Crime is way up.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:06 pmWayneB Says:
Perhaps I just didnt communicate correctly. I have often been accused of that (especially by the wife.)
April 18th, 2008 at 2:06 pmOr it is quite possible it is the flu medication that I am on.
Not all hope is lost.
This entire guns on campus debate recently broke out on the campus at NCSU, where I’m a student. I did a round up of all positions taken and aside from (I’m not making this up) “guns wouldn’t be a problem if we were all nicer people”, the argument against is entirely based on a reliance on the police and an abdication of personal responsibility.
The Students for Concealed Carry are holding a national weeklong empty holster protest next week, so expect to get lots more of this crap to read.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pmI had to breathe a sigh of relief that this ignorant (redacted) didn’t graduate from my alma mater.
I’d like to know how she plans to call for police when a rapist has his hands around her throat.
We need to stop the thinking that government employees are gods or supermen, able to swoop in whenever we’re in trouble to save us. I mean, shit, you think that the response to hurricance Katrina would’ve sunk in for some people, but NOOOOOO.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:25 pmStolen from somewhere:
I carry a gun because carrying a policeman is hard work.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pmNot to bash the people who are complaining about police response time, but after the dot-bomb I was working in a gas station for a while that was at the corner of a nasty intersection where there were t-bone accidents on a weekly basis. I got in the habit of calling 911 as soon as I heard the bang, and to be fair, I almost always got a connection to a person in well under a minute–in fact, at one point, for some reason I decided not to bother, after dialling, and they called *me* back. Now, it generally took longer for the cops and/or fire department to show up, but getting a response from a human was almost always very fast.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pmSorry this took so long. (I am supposed to be working
)
There are multiple statements by LEOs supporting armed self defense here.
Admittedly, it’s from a group that advocates armed self-defense. They may be cherry-picking, but I don’t think they’re making it up. Plus, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There’s plenty more where these came from.
I’m still working on the Wellesley (?) study.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pmrocinante Says:
Thanks man, I will have to look at them later as the room is starting to spin, must be that damn medicine, I am off to take a nap, will try to resume this conversation at a later time.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:43 pmI just have to throw my apology to Carbo in here. I am sorry sir, for anything negative that I have ever posted about your thought patterns on Rachel’s blog. I shall never make personal attacks toward you again. That is my pledge.
“What’s Up,” violent crime has increased almost 600% in Australia since their legislation banning handguns. That very same legislation from which they are backpeddling at a furious pace, I might add. Of course, we will never hear of that in the moron news, the media has an agenda, to control the thought processes of the dumb.
You know, dumb, as in the folks that believe that we have the worst economy ever in the history of the world?
Ahem, DC has one of the highest violent crime rates in the nation and seven miles away in Alexandria, violent crime is virtually non-existent. Only one thing distinguishes the philosophy between the two. Guess what it is?
Every school shooting has been in an acknowledged gun free zone. DAMN, THEY EVEN HAVE SIGNS!!!11!!! WE MUST INCREASE FUNDING FOR THE CRIMINAL’S READING PROGRAMS!!!!111!!!!!
Final thought, even IF every police officer or every Marine or Christ Almighty stated that they were against an armed populace, what is the difference? Choose your master, I choose me. Making guns illegal increases violent crime everywhere that it has been attempted.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:45 pmIn my city the local university actually tried to get the state legislature to change the state constitution to ban guns because they didn’t want students with CCPs carrying on campus. They had a rule denying the right to carry, but since they are a state school the state told them to suck it up, it’s a right to carry state and they are a state school. Even though I don’t have a gun right now, that makes me happy.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:46 pmFWIW (and aside from the fact that the stats are subject to interpretation), I’ve read multiple articles about the BritGov “cooking” the crime numbers because crime (or the public perception of crime) is a political football over there…
April 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pmI recommend More Guns, Less Crime for those interested in an in depth look at legally owned firearms and their effect on crime. It’s by John R. Lott, Jr. and can be purchased from Amazon (through Rachl’s blog, of course - that’s right, I’m pimping your Amazon connection).
April 18th, 2008 at 2:50 pmFor international crime rate comparisons, try NationMaster. Gotta be a little careful in some categories as different nations use different reporting. For example, some nations report murders and manslaughters as separate categories, some just report them all as murders. You have to check both tables and do some addition to find out that South Africa really is more dangerous than Colombia, and that a person is eight times more likely to die by violence in Mexico than in America.
You are more likely to be mugged in London than in New York City. You are more than twice as likely likely to be raped in Australia or Canada as in America. Twice as likely to be burgled in the UK as in America. The US, UK, and New Zealand run roughly equal in assaults per capita. Car theft? We trail again, behind Australia, Denmark, UK, New Zealand, Norway, France, Canada, and Italy!
And so on. The idea that America is somehow an exploding hotbed of crime while other nations are peaceful communities of law-abiding citizens is a crock. I blame Hollywood, and the French.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:56 pmThe Kansas Board of Regents just passed a rule like that yesterday–no guns on campus except for law enforcement, period. But state law on concealed carry says otherwise. They can post facilities (basically, buildings and enclosed ballfields) as no-carry zones, but the open grounds? Doesn’t look like.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pmMore cops on armed self-defense here, here (see page 4, footnote 11), and here.
(These three were in the first 20 hits I got on Dogpile, so there’s gotta be plenty more where those came from.)
April 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pmHeh. I can’t believe you have to ask that question.
I would not follow this advice because it gives the mugger control of the situation. HE gets to decide whether I live or die. HE gets to decide whether I get to keep my property. Well sorry Charlie, but it’s MY life and MY property, and I will fight you for it.
Also, I’m pretty sure the police aren’t saying you shouldn’t try to resist if you are capable. After all, Florida law allows me (or it would if I had a gun) to shoot dead any person who threatens my life. Not exactly what you’d call advising people not to resist.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pmI don’t think they gave the university even that much leeway. The entire university, all it’s buildings included, are state funded, therefore, any student with a CCP is well within their right to carry wherever they are on campus.
I thought it was silly for the university to even try given the fact that this state is overwhelmingly conservative. Then again, I guess they were trying to be as edgy as they could in a state where I’d guess about 80% of the populace is descended from people who took self defense extremely seriously seeing as they were often in fear for their lives.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:09 pmOh, I get it. You’re the type of person that thinks private citizens having guns can “escalate the violence”. I do believe I’ve got some Amazing Beliefs for that.
Amazing Beliefs:
That a mugger will kill you in the half-second it takes to draw from the holster, but won’t harm you while you dial 911 on your cell phone, talk to the dispatcher and wait half an hour for the cops to arrive.
That you should give a mugger your wallet, because he doesn’t really want to shoot you and he’ll let you go, but that you should give him your wallet, because he’ll shoot you if you don’t.
That the best thing our kids can do to bullies and drug dealers is “just say no,” and fight back, and the best thing we can do to muggers and thugs is to give them $50 and wait for them to go away.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:09 pmAnd here (follow the links for video), and here (full disclosure: there are some duplicate posts from the first link).
April 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pmYou’re very welcome, Mr. Up. Thanks for your patience. Get well soon, and please come back.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pmI’m sure the mugger will take that into account when he shoots you in the face to stop you from incriminating him.
Who’s statistics?
And you don’t think a potential mugger might come to the same conclusion? You don’t think a potential mugger might think to himself “That guy could be armed, so I’d better not try to mug him. The thirty bucks in his wallet isn’t worth my life.” You don’t think that might cross his mind?
April 18th, 2008 at 3:18 pm“Statistically speaking, giving the money to the mugger is the safest thing to do.”–Whats up
Congratulations, you just defected in a game of prisoner’s dilemma. If everyone resisted, everyone would be better off, because most muggers wouldn’t even try. Because many people rationally realize that they personally are better off each individual time if they cave in, they do so, which makes everyone worse off than they would be if no one ever gave in to muggers.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pmYou know this debate should end with a quote from “Predator vs Aliens: Requiem”. In fact I’m surprised no one’s mentioned it.
Female Marine holding child to overwhelmed cop-
“People are dying! We need guns!”
The point being, waiting for the government to save your ass is a bit like hoping a starving lion won’t eat you and the zoo keepers will keep the thing in line. The lion might decide not to kill you, but who is to say it won’t maul you before help arrive and then your disfigured for life.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:37 pmUm my conceal carry class was taught by a retired police officer. That’s how he makes his living now. Teaching regular people to defend themselves with guns. Sounds like a pretty good endorsement to me. Well he taught part of the class. The other part was taught by an attorney whose firm specializes in armed self defense cases.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:41 pmA couple of years ago I got pulled over for speeding. I handed the officer my license and he went back to his car to check me out. Upon his return he asked if I was carrying (CCP’s and driver’s license are linked in the system.) “Yes sir, it’s right here,” said I as I pointed to it. “Good,” he said, “I think everyone should carry.”
Now I realize I can’t prove it as it was just he and I — but it’s what he said verbatim.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pmYeah, and what am I to do? I was mugged and hit over the head and now have permanent loss of some of my vision. If I could go back in time and be carrying a concealed weapon…
April 18th, 2008 at 3:44 pmBack in 2000, a couple from Virginia stopped at a drugstore a few miles from my home in Greenville, NC. He went inside, she stayed in the parking lot to change the baby’s diaper in the back seat. Along comes a thug who kidnaps them and drives them to an ATM. She withdraws all the money she could, near $200.00 and gives it to him. She did as he asked. She was rewarded by being forced to drive into the countryside where he bashed her skull in with a tire iron, and tried to kill the baby as well, but the baby survived. Good thing she cooperated, huh?
Two years before that in Greenville, a man sitting in his car behind his place of employment, eating his breakfast before work, is approached by two men who force him out of the car at gunpoint and robbed him of approximately $40.00. For his cooperation, they made him get on his knees and shot him in the back of the head. He only survived by luck. Good thing he cooperated, eh?
The thing you don’t seem to realize, Whats Up, is that it isn’t up to you whether you get killed for $30.00 bucks or not. If you are unarmed and defensless, your life is in the hands of the thug who doesn’t give a rats ass about what you want. In fact, he likely would rather kill you than let you live to identify him.
Consequently, asshats like that don’t want to die either; if they think you can defend yourself, they opt for easier, ie unarmed, prey. Being a big guy is no help, as I can attest to personally, when they have numbers. The gun makes a great equalizer of the weak and outnumbered.
And it is laughable to think the cops are there to protect you. The ugly truth is that they are there to clean up the mess and try to catch the person who made it. TRY. You seem to miss the point that the girls statement is so idiotic because despite campus security and police, dozens were still killed in the uber-safe ‘gun free zone’.
Think a law protects you from the lawless is, indeed, the height of idiocy.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pmWe should gather people like that into a room. For a “no guns on campus” meeting. In the room should be a table, covered in plastic, filled with watermelons and cantelope, tomatoes, all kinds of squashable and smooshable fruits and vegetables. A side of beef or a whole hog should be hanging above it, and maybe some piles of ground beef or steak on plates. Make sure that Ms. Holmes stands next to the table.
Make sure that a police officer is there in uniform. Ask him what the average response time is in the area. Ask him to wait outside the room for that amount of time before coming back in.
Once the officer is outside the room, ask Ms Holmes to call 911 on her cell. When she starts to do so, smack it out of her hand. Then procced to destroy everything on the table with fists and a baseball bat and a knife. Make sure she gets splattered with the gunk flying from the smashed and smooshed fruits and the blood from the meat. treat the hanging side of beef like a pinata and it’s your birthday. Smash that meat up. Then go at it with a knife. Make sure you finish up before the officer is to arrive, and then calmly walk out the side door. Leaving Ms. Holmes covered in gore and the officer not much to do but clean up the mess. Bonus points if you turn the lights off on the way out and the cop has to find his way in the dark. And she has to stand there in the dark covered in fruity meaty gore.
Maybe then she’d get it.
But I’m honestly not sure she would.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pmWell, here in old Virginny, HB 424 , which would allow faculty with permits to carry on campus, and HB 1371, which would allow anyone with a permit to carry on campus, are both languishing in committee.
We still have a few folks up in Richmond with their heads not up their backsides, just not a majority anymore — too many Yankee lib invaders!
I am proud to say that at least my, formerly homeschooled, college kid, who attends another Virginia state school, has the good sense God gave a cabbage! (Well, most of the time
)
April 18th, 2008 at 4:28 pmThe entire concept of looking to highly schooled and sophisticated thinkers for guidance is flawed. Personalities developed in the utopian world of academia do not engage with the world that is. The solutions such personalities prescribe only make sense in the utopian fantasies of their minds. Commentary from the occupants of that world may best be appreciated as symptoms of and markers for the extent of denial .
It is, apparently, typical for successful societies to create an expanding population of such nitwits and entrust to them the governing of the nation. (Common Genius by Bill Greene)
It must be Friday, too many syllables.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:33 pmNo, I will not follow that advice, at least not as my only means of defense. I might give a mugger my money in order to buy more time to assess the situation and come up with a plan for getting to my gun, but not as some sort of “surrender the cash and pray he doesn’t kill you” strategy for self defense. If the bastard gets what he wants and promptly runs away, then fine, but if not, I’m going to have a response other than “well shit, that didn’t work!” prepared.
Here’s my bottom line. I will not put the decision of whether I live or die in the hands of someone whose primary decision-making criteria is whether or not they get the fifty bucks in my wallet.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:34 pmThis didn’t seem to post on the first go, so, at the risk of double-posting . . .
Here in Virginia, HB424, which would allow faculty with permits to carry on a public campus, and HB1371, which would allow anyone with a permit to carry on a public campus, are both languishing in committee.
I blame the recent influx of Yankee libs into the state. We’re going purple — aaaaaaugh!
p.s. sorry if doubled up here!
April 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pmI don’t care. $2000 - $20 - $0.20 IT’S MINE!! And I’m not giving it up without a fight. If a mugger thinks what I may have is worth gambling his life for - then let him have at it. Only one of us is going to walk away from an encounter of that nature; and I’m going to do everything I can to ensure that it’s me.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:07 pmWhat I want to know is where in hell did the left wing get the idea that “guns are eeevill and nobody should have or carry them” in the first place? Back In The Day, Johann Most, a real live bearded bomb-dripping anarchist, encouraged the workers to arm themselves and learn military drill, to counteract the bosses’ goon squads. If you can find a copy of his “Military Science for Revolutionaries,” it’s right in there.
Not to mention, Abbie Hoffman, whose left-wing credentials are hard for anybody to argue with, specifically told the Yippies in Steal This Book to arm up—he admitted he, himself, didn’t know much about guns, but told them to look up people who did.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:23 pmThe police are under no obligation to protect you or me. They will try to solve the crime should you be robbed, raped, assaulted or killed but that’s a little too late.
You have my OK to ignore the other Marine. Not all of us are always right; John Murtha being one very prominent example. It’s your life, use your brain.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:23 pmPlease, I wouldnt call the police until after the crime occured, if he was going to kill me I would allready be dead.
Most muggings do not end with death, is it a possiblity sure but so is getting hit by lightning.
FBI crime statistics
April 18th, 2008 at 7:50 pmRaving Lunatic Says:
I can find as many stories of people who cooperated who were not killed or injured, what exactly is your point?
You might not have vision loss, then again you might be dead. Like I mentioned before seems like a crap shoot to me. Each individual must decide where they draw the line with deadly force, my line is not drawn over 30 bucks.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:54 pmI do.
The police have no legal responsibility to protect individual citizens. This is established in case law; e.g. Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981) and Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989).
Even if more people understood this, their attitudes are unlikely to change. They will continue to demand a police state instead.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:59 pmI actually saw the local interview of this idiot on the noon news. My favorite part was when she said something to the effect of “Only the police have the judgement and training to use a gun.” Bless her little heart!
April 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pmI said “harm” not kill.
You argued that a mugger will somehow be able to kill you in the half second or so it takes to pull out your weapon. But if he plans on hurting you at all why would he wait?
And I notice you didn’t address any of the OTHER Amazing Beliefs I posted.
Most rapes don’t end in death either. Should women who are sexually assaulted just lie back and take it so their attacker doesn’t get mad and kill them? All they have to lose is their dignity. That’s not worth their lives.
Show me.
Except you’re still giving your attacker ultimate control over the situation. If you refuse to resist HE gets the choice of whether you live or die. If you choose to resist then YOU get to make that choice.
I’d rather not give the man threatening to kill me over 30 dollars the right to make that decision. Apparently you’re okay with putting your life in his hands.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:34 pmwhats up-
Take the law into your own hands? Yes. Absolutely.
If you can’t win and you know it, sure, lay down and let the gorilla fuck ya and hope you forget about it while you plod on through life as a survivor. I’d prefer putting up a fight, thankyouverymuch. And I’d prefer public opinion rally behind my right to fucking stand up for myself.
Boortz addressed the “taking the law into your own hands” thing earlier this week:
“What in the hell is this “takes the law into his own hands” stuff? If the law isn’t in our hands, then who’s hands is it in? We are the sovereigns here .. not the government. We hire the government to help police our laws. The law belongs to us .. not to the government. The right to self defense and the right to protect our property rests in us, not the government. When we protect ourselves or our property we are only doing what the agencies that we have formed have failed to do.
Just remember these words of immense wisdom the next time someone pulls that “takes the law into his own hands” crap on you.” -Neal Boortz
I have heard the approach advocated by Ashley Holmes called the “pussification of America”.
If the shit hits the fan, good luck. I hope you make the right decisions and survive and continue a happy life afterward. But if one demands not to be judged by their pacifying/criminal enabling advocacy, don’t criticize those who are willing to kill their attacker and thereby end the fucking cycle once and for all. Or to at least have an edge for “just in case”. After all, it isn’t just self defense, every potential victim after you is being defended.
Tangent: This made me think of this ludicrous cruel and inhumane bullshit regarding the death penalty. What the fuck? I say kill them the way they killed their victims. Or mercifully execute this way: Hoist a massive anvil. Wayyyy up in the air. Place the asshole underneath it. Drop the anvil. Do you think they’d feel a thing? One thing’s for sure, the front row witnesses would learn to bring a splat mat like Gallager fans did.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:18 pmmightysamurai, you may as well give up on this guy, he wants to be a victim and wants everyone to join him for the ride.
Don’t confuse him with the facts because if they don’t add up to what he wants to think then he will just sing loudly to himself until those ugly little things go away
April 18th, 2008 at 10:23 pmDamn I am late to the party.
Not sure which person posted the UK govt statistics. I imagine they are about as accurate as a epileptic sharpshooter.
http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
I read about the massaging of the U.K. crime stats in order to achieve the desired results about 7 years ago. I think Kim du Toit covered it well. Essentially, the govt realized that an unarmed public was victim public and crime rates of all kinds skyrocketed. Thus, they had to CYA and massaged the statistics with different counting methods to get what they wanted.
They lied.
An armed society is a polite society.
Also, it is NOT the duty of a police officer to TELL me HOW I may defend myself. It is his duty to clean up the mess after I DO.
Finally, the moonbats and pantiewastes that think like Ashley-teh-stripper are ripe for a fascist nanny state government to take over their lives…..oh wait, they are trying to elect one right now! silly me.
couch1971
April 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pmhttp://www.nrapublications.org/ac/Index.html
Not that the second amendment isn’t already being ably defended here, but ‘Armed Citizen’ is pretty compelling!
Call me paranoid, but we live a good quarter mile from our nearest neighbor, and there’s a major correctional facility nearby. I’ve actually considered what I would do, and, if I could get to it, what would be the most defensible position in my house in the event of a home invasion!
April 18th, 2008 at 11:52 pmYou fail in logic also. If he is going to shoot you anyway, why do you think he would even bother to stop to say “give me your money or I will kill you”? Especially if he thinks you may be carrying a gun, why would he give you a change to use it? Your reaction time drops drastically when you have a 22 cal bullet inside your skull. A lot less risky for the mugger take the money then. And your gun too.
(BTW, don’t jump to any conclusions about my view to gun laws that btw are way different where I live, just saying that a) you suck in logic, and b) with that kind of opponent you are f*cked with a gun or not.)
April 19th, 2008 at 3:59 amwhat’s up seems to want to focus on only mugging because he feels its the argument he can win in suggesting you not fight back. So apparently in what’s up world the only crimes that occur are muggings.
Yes each individual must decide. The thing that people are railing against though is when other people are trying to make the decisions for them.
I don’t own a gun and have no desire to own one, but the crooks still have to wonder if I might have one, due to the laws.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:09 amTwo reasons.
One, he won’t have to spend time going through your pockets looking for your money while the police are possibly on their way.
Two, he’ll be counting on you to act like what’s up and offer no resistance, thereby decreasing risk to himself. He doesn’t want to have to fight you for the money, he wants you to give it to him.
No, I’m pretty sure that’s you.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:12 amEach women would decide that for themselves, for some they will decide to lie back and for others they wont, is that really hard to understand?
Maybe I am misreading what you are saying here, but it sounds like you want everyone to act like you do, I am not proposing any kind of gun laws here, I am a gun owner myself, I am just saying it is up to each individual to decide.
Geez, could you get any more childish?? I thought I was dealing with an adult.
Here ya go child:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
You’re absolutly right!! As I have said before each individual makes that choice, you have stated very well where you stand, I applaud you for it. My line is just drawn somewhere else, thats all.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pmInstinct Says:
You havent been following along very well have you. I have only argued that each individual gets to draw the line where they choose.
Which facts arent adding up? If you want to refute some facts that I have put out there, feel free to do so, that is what happens in a conversation or debate. Do you have anything you want to refute?
April 19th, 2008 at 1:50 pmYour so right, and I agree 100% with you.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pmWhat’s hard to understand is why you seem to be advocating that people submit to criminals rather than resist them. You keep saying “I think everybody should choose on their own” but if you really believed that then you wouldn’t keep coming back here to defend your argument. You would just say “everyone gets their own choice” and move on to another subject.
The fact that you’re still here defending your non-resistance philosophy suggests to me that you are trying to convince us that non-resistance is a better idea.
What, resisting against criminals? Yes, I would like it very much if everyone acted like that.
As long as muggers think there is a good chance their potential victim will just lie back and accept it when they get mugged, muggings will continue to happen.
Asking you to provide evidence for your own claims is childish?
WTF?
And you’re going to have to be more specific than that. There are more than a dozen articles in your link and I’m not going to sift through every one of them just to find the one that supposedly proves your claim.
I was thinking the same thing. Adults don’t accuse their opponents of being “childish” just because they ask for proof.
Okey-doke. If you’re comfortable putting your life in the hands of a criminal, you go right ahead.
I’ll be sure to visit you in the hospital after you get shot and left for dead in an alley.
April 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pmWhy would he care? It takes longer to make you give the money than grab the wallet. How much of a head start will he get by shooting you after he gets the money?
I wasn’t going to reply to this anymore, but I would like to see how you are going to use your gun against an attacker that is already determined to kill you no matter what and has a gun pointed at your head? Freeze time first?
Only change would be that he does not want to kill you unless he really have to, raising his threshold to pull the trigger so high that you will be able to shoot without getting a slug in your head first. But then again, he wouldn’t shoot if he gets the money, right?
Well, that may be (added that there to provoke :), but I think we just live in very different worlds. In my world a threshold to kill a person, even for a mugger, is very high.
Although, I don’t live in US, so in my world running in to a mugger with a gun is not very likely either. Even though we have plenty of guns around, “carrying a gun for self defense” is a very strange though around here. But I guess that also has to do with the very different laws about self defense in general. What I consider fucked up is that here you are not basically allowed to use force to defend your self. If you shoot an ARMED robber here, you go to jail for murder or manslaughter. Self defense does not get you off the hook, even though it may lower your jail time. Oh, and that applies to police on duty also. It is very hard to commit suicide-by-cop around here. Few have tried and ended up with a riffle bullet or a very large canine stuck to their leg.
So, I’m not saying that carrying a gun for protection is overkill in US. You probably have a good reason to do so. But it is good to be realistic about the capability and possibility to use it. And yes, I am familiar with guns and know how to use them. Well enough to know not to try to out draw a guy in a situation like that. Maybe I just suck at that too then.
And to get back to the topic, personally I wouldn’t like the idea of guns in schools (in my world), but I find the thought that “police will protect us” is a bit naive also, if taken literally.
April 19th, 2008 at 2:58 pmWhy would he care that he has to spend time searching a dead body while the police are bearing down on him? Did you seriously just ask me that question?
The second he shoots you he knows he has to leave the area in case someone heard the shot. Time spent going through your pockets could mean the difference between a clean getaway and getting caught.
You do know that hundreds of people have used guns to defend themselves from armed attackers, don’t you? It’s not like it never happens.
My aunt once defended herself from a mugger by pretending to reach into her purse for her wallet and pulling out her gun instead.
Well if that’s what you want to believe you’re welcome to do so. Personally, I think it makes more sense to assume that the man threatening me with a deadly weapon does, in fact, intend to kill me.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:59 pmIf that happens thanks very much, I dont think it will though. I would do the same for you should that unfortuante incident ever happen.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pmYou are free to assume whatever you want, you would be wrong in that assumption however.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:13 pmDid she shoot him?
April 19th, 2008 at 4:26 pmA gun doesn’t have to be fired to be effective.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pmI agree.
The reason I asked (or commented in the first place) was the comment:
If you really think that the guy will kill you after he gets your money, do you think that waving a gun at him makes any difference? Or should you actually use the gun immediatelly when you get your hands on it?
April 19th, 2008 at 4:47 pmI believe they call these “famous last words”.
Whatever, dude. I didn’t expect you to admit you were wrong anyway.
Nope, he turned and ran when he saw the gun. Criminals are, after all, a superstitious and cowardly lot.
Yes, because criminals have this inexplicable fear of being shot dead.
I can’t imagine why that might be…
April 19th, 2008 at 5:34 pmI wasnt aware that this discussion had a right or wrong answer. I simply have stated my opinion you may agree or disagree with it at your leisure.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:01 pm…and this is where the logic failed.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:47 amSo you’re saying criminals don’t have a fear of being shot dead?
Whose logic is failing now?
I think your problem is you assume that mugging is always about money. You assume that if a guy draws a gun on you, all he ever wants to do is to steal your money and leave you in peace.
But that’s not the way it works in the real world.
Criminals don’t become criminals because they’re strapped for cash. They become criminals because they have antisocial and/or violent personalities.
Refuse to resist against a mugger and he’s just as likely to take your money and run off as he is to shoot you, stab you, or pistol whip you into a concussion, just because he can. He knows he has you under his total control and if he’s so inclined he might just decide to exploit that control by hurting you, for no better reason than it gives him a sick sense of pleasure.
April 20th, 2008 at 9:53 amI carry a gun because a whole cop is much too difficult to carry concealed
April 20th, 2008 at 6:28 pmI am way late to this party. I am a police officer, and I am not going to give any of you any advice. But I will tell you what I tell my wife to do. Get your gun. Carry it. I don’t have the statistics on me, but there have been quite a few studies showing that women who resist a sexual assault get hurt more then necessary (for the assailant to succeed in the assault and get away) about 50% of the time. Women who don’t resist the assault get hurt more then necessary about 50% of the time. I was not a math major, but it appears that women seem to get hurt regardless of whether or not they resist - so I tell my wife to resist. If you have a gun, shoot the bad guy. If you don’t, or can’t get to it, kick him in the junk, punch him in the neck, gouge out his eyes - whatever. Just get in the fight and then finish the fight. And no matter what happens - KEEP FIGHTING!
April 20th, 2008 at 6:51 pmHere is the real statistic that is relevant to this thread - the secret service conducted an in depth survey on cop killers who are in prison (again, I don’t have the link as I don’t get my training materials from the internet - but I seem to recall that it was a study sponsored by the Department of Education and related to assassin profiling - ultimately to draw information about potential future school shooters, if any one wants to look it up). What they found out is that the bad guys picked their target. They didn’t go after the first cop they saw, they went after the one who showed non-verbally (body language, posture, sloppy uniform, out of shape, not paying attention to surroundings, etc.) that they would not put up (much of) a fight. Bad guys are predators, and they try to find easy prey. When my wife carries a gun in her purse or under her coat, she walks differently - her whole posture becomes one of confidence. That alone will prevent attempted muggings and rapes. And if a potential rapist or mugger doesn’t notice the warning signs, I don’t think that he’ll have long to regret it.
Like nonsubhomine, I hate being late to the party. That’s what I get for being busy this week. Although I did notice I was quoted earlier, which makes me feel so special.
Where someone draws the line on how and when they will fight and/or kill someone is a VERY PERSONAL decision. The legal line in Texas is very lenient, especially with the new “castle doctrine” and the specific abolition of the “duty to retreat” a few years back. I strongly encourage Texas people to read up Chapter 9 of the Penal Code if you are big legal heads, or consult with lawyers and whatnot, if you aren’t well versed in when you can and can’t defend yourself.
Anyway, it is a matter of personal responsibility. As a police officer, I like protecting people, but its not something you can be proactive about. Driving or walking up on crimes in progress is a RARE instance. The most proactive I can be is keeping an eye on and putting known bad guys in jail for the bad things they do before they hurt other people. But they have to do something before I can do that. Thus, what happens to you as a crime victim is largely up to you.
If you think its bad to resist, then be passive. If you can’t be passive, then resist. If you could resist an unarmed attacker, but don’t want to resist a guy with a knife, whatever. If you couldn’t carry a weapon because you can’t possibly take another human being’s life, then whatever. Just accept the responsibility for your actions is all I ask, and don’t try and take that option away from law abiding people. The problem I often run into is that people like Ashley (in the article) tend to ask me “where were you when I needed you!?!?”. Then they go and rail about the dangers of guns.
My personal line is very easy. If I have a right to defend myself with deadly force, I will take that option. Instead of removing my wallet, I will remove my handgun and proceed to try and shoot the bad guy(s). Action beats reaction every time, and therefore I’m not just going to display my weapon to scare the guy off and hope he doesn’t shoot or stab me. For research on that, google up the “21 foot rule”. Action beats reaction every time.
In general, I believe that people should arm themselves and be ready to defend themselves to the extent that they feel capable. Other people and the government should not remove the right from the people at large.
April 21st, 2008 at 2:49 amReceive firearms training, purchase a weapon of your choice, and carry it.
Protect yourself and your family.
Any other option is pure horseshit.
April 21st, 2008 at 11:16 am