It’s like arguing with Fred Phelps.
Man, the things you can learn from angry atheists. Valuable life lessons such as: if you ignore them, then you’re scared and insecure in your beliefs. If you engage them, as they so clearly and very badly want you to do, then you’re attention-seeking and a whiner. I can’t decide whether to be scared or a whiner! It sucks to only have those two choices but listen people. The atheists have everything figured out, they really do, so don’t blame me if I restructure my life to reflect their superior intelligence.
Another much-needed lesson for all of us here: it is apparently one of the worst things you can possibly do to ever use that foxhole quote. I know this because, obviously, since atheists have everything figured out, if there were more horrible things going on in the world that could be helped by the time and energy these atheists have put into their own personal battle against that quote, they’d be doing those things instead.
…
So. In all seriousness, it’s been an interesting discussion and more than a little illuminating. Nicki and Instapunk have joined in, and the angry atheists are already on Nicki’s site, comparing me to a racist for using the foxhole quote. Yep. I’m exactly like a racist. Damn, these people are GENIUSES. A fool such as me could never hope to stand up to their ironclad grasp of logic, context, and meaning of everything.
Anyway. I’ve been writing back to a few of my friends this morning and have told them that I keep thinking of that line, “life’s tough - get a helmet”, and that it seems to me that friends are, in fact, your helmet.
I profoundly appreciate every single comforting thing anyone has said about Rupert’s dad, all the well wishes, all the kind words. It’s unspeakably gratifying to have so much moral support.
Forget what the angry atheists say about prayer (”magical thinking, you fools!”), the fact of the matter is that when you are in emotional pain and someone kindly says to you, “I hope you feel better and I wish you all the best,” it does make you feel better. When a person you care about is in critical condition in a hospital and someone kindly says to you, “I have your loved one in my thoughts and prayers and I hope you will all come through this happy and healthy,” IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER.
And it will make the sick one feel better when he wakes up and hears that thousands of people are wishing him well. No, it will not heal his wounds. It will not repair his foot or make anything less physically painful materially. But it just might make his emotions more positive, it might cheer him up, it might distract him from some of his agony, and it might improve his psychological outlook to be reminded that there is such a thing as the kindness of strangers.
That’s why people say these things to each other, because they know if they were in the same situation, it might make them feel better. They care about you as a human being and they try to help the only way they can from a distance, and it does make a difference. So I really appreciate it.
…
The subject of the sick one in question is finished being associated with this “debate” about atheism. End of the line with that shit. If any comments left on any future post regarding his medical situation are about the foxhole issue, atheism, or anything controversial related thereto, they will be moved to the appropriate threads, which would be this one and the last one.
The angry atheists did a bang-up job making my boyfriend’s family tragedy about them because they just felt so incredibly INSULTED, and that’s fine. I learned my lesson: never say anything that might insult atheists while talking about sick loved ones. That’s my end of the deal. The angry atheists’ end of the deal is to behave like decent human beings and respect those same boundaries, because once more with feeling: this is my blog and I own it. Comments are open because I like hearing what people have to say and they like saying it, and usually everybody’s happy even when we’re in-fighting like angry chimps, because we keep it in context and usually remarkably civil, given some of the subject matter we’ve covered, like abortion.
But it’s a privilege to comment on someone else’s personal blog, not a right. I pay money for the bandwidth every commenter uses, so I get to maintain control of it and there’s not a damn thing wrong with that. Nor is there a damn thing wrong with using that control to keep comment threads contextual and free from trolls and assholes if that’s what I feel like doing.
…
I can’t help but wonder how these exact same angry atheists would have reacted were all of this flipped. Say there’s some random blog out there by an atheist. She posts about a family member who is in a coma, and titles her post, “There are no Christians in a foxhole.” She says that she does not want anyone to pray for him because that is a waste of time. She writes that at this moment, during the fear and worry, she cannot possibly believe there is a kind and loving God that gives a crap about humans.
I would like to know exactly how “tolerant” and “fair-minded” she and her friends/commenters would be if a Christian immediately left a condescending comment saying that, in fact, there ARE Christians in foxholes and that it was unfortunate that she didn’t find the contributions of Christian veterans worth much.
And say that comment was quickly followed by several other comments from Christians detailing precisely how, in point of fact, people can be in frightening situations and still believe in God, to say otherwise is an outrageous lie, and that therefore her post title claiming otherwise is incredibly insulting and bigoted and even just like racism. Say these commenters mocked and belittled the atheists there, explaining in careful detail how silly and naive it is to believe there is no God. All of this on the thread to her post about a loved one in a coma.
Whether they are correct or incorrect factually is not the question. The question is, anyone want to take bets on that not exactly going over very well in that particular context and on that particular blog? Maybe the blogger might even feel compelled to tell those Christians to get bent and shut the fuck up with their agendas and their dogma?
…
I am never going to apologize for using the foxhole quote, and here’s why: I have no reason to. If we all apologized every time we said something that someone somewhere might find “insulting”, we’d never get anything else done. If people want to be insulted by something an emotional person said, even after she clarified that it was simply a quote that applied to HER at THAT TIME and was NOT A STATEMENT OF FACT, then that’s just the way it’s going to have to be. Even if I apologized, you’d still feel insulted, wouldn’t you? I will say with all sincerity that I did not mean it to be offensive or insulting. The fact you think I did is not something I am going to apologize for.
I felt insulted that people were using a comment thread about a man in a coma to push their own personal agenda - and that is exactly what these atheists were doing - and it hasn’t even occurred to me to ask for an apology for that. It wouldn’t make me feel better and it wouldn’t prove any points. I have no need for an apology because even though I felt insulted and offended, that’s what happens when you have open comments. They said what they wanted to say and everyone looking on can decide what they think about it.
One last thing. It’s funny how differently this played out than it did when I used to bait Christians into defending their faith. I said some pretty flippant and borderline-offensive things about Christianity and the Bible, and actually ASKED Christians to fight me on it. They did. And maybe 1% of them were even remotely hostile. The rest found it in themselves to answer my questions with a calm and civil tone, and it turned into a couple of really productive debates.
But this? I make one offhand reference to a quote from long ago to describe the way I was feeling in a time of stress, and Jesus Wilford Christ, you’d have thought I said atheists are dirty festering hemorrhoids on the ass of humanity and should all be wiped out. The reaction - to something that wasn’t even remotely a bait - was damn near perfectly inversely proportional to the reaction I got from Christians when I actively baited them. The vast majority of the angry atheists went completely ballistic and concluded that I have very poor character and am a liar and a bigot, while a mere few from that forum said basically, “while that quote may insult me, I’m not gonna lose my shit over it. Ease up.”
Instructive, is what I’m saying it is. Especially now as someone who’s gotten it from both sides. The thing about arguing with Christians is that you always have a trump card. The minute they get nasty, insulting, or hateful, all you have to do is mention that this isn’t what Jesus would do. That either shuts them down or proves their hypocrisy and their own personal failure to live up to what they’re endorsing.
Atheists, on the other hand, particularly the angry variety, well you’re just screwed. Not because they’re right or because their argument is superior, but because there is no overarching moral standard that they claim to adhere to and that you can use to prove to them their own hypocrisy. And some of them ARE hypocrites. Giant, flaming, outrageous hypocrites.
…
And this concludes the Great Foxhole Insult Debate. Well, your comments will conclude it. I won’t be mentioning it again for a very long time because amazingly, I have more important things to agitate about for the next few weeks, like Rupert’s dad, who’s having surgery on his foot this morning and is still in a coma, and Rupert himself, who is going through an extremely rough time right now. And on a lighter note, this blog. It’s become a real downer and that’s not what I have ever envisioned for it.
Thanks again, to all of you with your kind words and also for your defenses of me in the other threads. I’ve always considered my commenters to be my own personal community support system and you haven’t failed me yet. I appreciate you.
At the core of the debate, you only had good intentions in your heart. That’s good enough for me. Anyone else? Mweh. Fuck ‘em.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:59 pmRachel -
I’ve never been so ashamed to say I’m an atheist; nor have I been as embarrassed by the actions of a few dipshites that I share some views with. Sometimes there’s not enough grownups in the room.
Best of wishes to your family and Rupert’s dad.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:00 pmYou’re still my favorite scared whiner Rachel.
P.S. Don’t tell the others.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pmI’ve debated both sides, the theist and the atheist, and after so much debating it eventually ends up looking very silly. Or in the case of college religious students, you see the sun rising over the horizion and you discover you have two hours until your first class and you haven’t done your homework. I just hope that atheist and theist can put aside their differences and come together when Muslims start insisting on Sharia, ‘cuz that’s going to ruin everyone’s day.
Best wishes for Rupert’s dad’s recovery.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pmI think you have a couple more banner headings!
Best wishes to Ruperts dad, I hope he pulls through. I ride and I know the risks from stupid cage drivers.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pmCan I take a moment to apologize to all of the bent out of shape atheists?
I’m sorry you’re all a bunch of thin-skinned douchenozzles.
Much love-
-Naughtius
June 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pmIt’s really sad that it had to come to the gigantic flame war that it did. People, regardless of religious creed (or lack thereof), should just learn to behave themselves. We will always be here to offer a sympathetic ear, some friendly advice, and to laugh with (or at!) you whenever needed.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, especially the in-laws!
June 10th, 2008 at 3:15 pm… be Democrats.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:19 pm“Jesus Wilford Christ”? Rachel, are you telling me that God is really Wilford Brimley?
Life makes so much more sense now! So THAT’s how those old people in Cocoon were able to turn young again…
June 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pmWhat og said.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:24 pmOh Rachel, I’m so sorry all this happened– all this crap piled upon crap. How rotten for you. I wish you peace, lots of dog kisses, a good hug from Rupert, and a good night’s sleep. It sounds like you could use them. And also a good stiff drink, if you go for that sort of thing. You and yours are still in my thoughts and prayers. Take care.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pmJustin Buist Says:
If we all apologized every time we said something that someone somewhere might find “insulting”, we’d…
… be Democrats.
I thought it was the rethuglicans that were always bullied into apologizing?
Either way - Best thoughts, wishes and prayers for Joe.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pmNo relation.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:26 pmDrink alert! My poor computer would be fried right now if I had been drinking anything.
Rachel, thanks for blogging; you bring out the best in everyone (except the flaming asshat atheists, obviously, but I’m not sure who could bring out the best there; I think even Jesus on His Amazing Muffin would have a difficult time pleasing that crowd).
Again, best wishes and prayers to Joe, Rupert, you, and anybody else in your family who is having a hard time.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm“That either shuts them down or proves their hypocrisy and their own personal failure to live up to what they’re endorsing.”
Would you believe it actually prompts some (probably most) of us to repentance and self-examination? It’s not always hypocrisy, you know. Sometimes we just screw up.
That comment the person made earlier about you being a bigot? I don’t get it. You’re extremely open-minded. You’re one of the most intellectually honest people I’ve encountered here in la-la land. Don’t let it get to you. I think you’re lovely.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pmHappy to move on, and wish Joe well - but I have to say that the worst day on Rachel’s blog is still better than everyone else’s on their best day.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pmLooking forward to your take on Obama’s next stupid move - should be coming along any minute now…
Rachel,
Been reading you for a while now. Only commented a couple of times.
Even though I am a fundamental, Bible believing Christian, I still DIG YOU and think Rupert is one helluva of lucky man.
Love your writing,
MG
P.S. Keep up your prayers for Rupert’s Dad. God is listening.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:33 pmJust hit the tip jar. Hope that makes you feel better.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:34 pmBest wishes, prayers and greetings to your “future in laws.”
Damn.
Well, even if you go on hiatus again, we’ll be out here at the bus stop, ready when you are!
For now, this ‘praying type’ will just keep praying for you and Rupert and his Mom and, especially today, Joe.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:36 pmHmmmmm, seems to me that any atheist who has a problem with the foxhole quote WHO HAS NEVER BEEN IN A FOXHOLE UNDER HEAVY ENEMY FIRE should shut the hell up until the foxhole/enemy fire situation actually happens to them. Until they have some actual experience in the matter, they have no perspective. Personally, I don’t give a rat’s smelly brown ass if a person is an atheist or not, the problem I have is with people spouting off about shit that they have not actually experienced first hand.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pmI’ve always found it evident that there is very little difference between the “true believer” and the “true unbeliever.”
June 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pmIn either case you’ll be excommunicated for varying from their orthodoxy.
Well with all the heathen traffic, I hope your ad revenues improve.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:38 pmThe odd thing to me about the debate is that I never thought the ‘atheist in foxhole’ quote was ever about religion. It has always struck me as a comment on how we humans when faced with a horrible situation will respond with emotional searching, not intellectualization, e.g. injured older men calling for their mother; or parents seeking ‘a greater good’ in the death of a child; or Frankl’s ‘Man’s search for meaning’ after his holocaust experience.
How about this one to keep thing going.
There will always be prayer in schools, as long as there are tests!
June 10th, 2008 at 3:38 pmRachel,
I have read your blog for quite some time. I love your writing, dog pics, rants etc. Thanks for blogging for us, it is much appreciated. I always turn to your page when I need a good laugh or some good entertainment.
I would like to point out one thing… The key word in this is asshole not atheist. I am upset that a couple assholes created such a bad name for atheists. I am also sorry that a couple assholes made this difficult time in your life even more difficult.
I have no need to defend myself (as an atheist) but I just wanted to say one thing to all your readers who made negative comments about atheists: the acts of a small few do not represent the group as a whole. Please do not group all atheists into this category of angry or asshole atheists. I am not angry or an asshole, just simply an atheist.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pmMy electricity went out for 24 hours and this is what I come back to. I am alternately bemused and angry that this was piled on you during a time of tragedy, Rachel.
I desperately want to go to WAR [metaphorically, you hair-trigger nitwits] because there is something so despicably familiar about these hard-core evangelical atheists [I'm not talking to the rest of you - I'm talking to the ones who have crapped in Rachel's living room]…they remind me of professional Phelps-like haters/fanatics:
There’s only one other people group on the planet that you could say this about: MUSLIMS. Some atheists are as zealous and rabid in their convictions as any jihadist I’ve ever heard about. They circle like hyenas at the slightest insult - real or imagined - and attack in cowardly packs. There’s no reasoning with them, there’s no logic, and certainly no fairness. You may as well be discussing women’s rights with the Taliban for all that’s worth.
For some [note the emphasis], atheism is as much a religious belief as a political movement. They are incredibly intrusive, aggressive and evangelical, and above all - they are intolerant.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pmI wonder about the proportional response of comparing the outrage so many atheists felt to your use of that quote compared to any Christians being outraged by the homorous creation of the Rachel Lucas Prayer Book from a few weeks back, which would essentially be blasphemy.
I know which way I would be betting on that.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:52 pmBest wishes and positive thoughts (and yes, prayers) continue here for Rupert’s dad and Rupert and Rupert’s mom and the rest of the family, including Rachl Sunnysmom and Sunny and Maggie….
When you have time, updates would be good. Venting too. We’re right here if you need us.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:55 pmI left you an email.
I hope you are feeling better!
My sincere best wishes for Joe and Rupert’s surgery.
May God be with them.
And I will defend you anytime, I abhor abuse, especially if it’s against someone enduring rough times.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:59 pmSome people, be they Christians, atheists, Jews, Muslims, or Hindus, are like land mines—step on one, no matter how inadvertently, and they explode.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:03 pm“Logic and reason aren’t enough: You also have to be a dick to everyone who doesn’t think like you.” *
You have my prayers for, and best wishes to you, Rupert and family.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmRachel–
Like most of the stuff you write, your response to this latest dust-up was very well said.
I don’t know if anyone else has ever used the term, but I’ll coin it right here…
It seems that you’ve angered a pack of Fundamental Atheists, and just like their brothers-in-arms, the fundies from the other major religions, they sound like a bunch of shit-flinging monkeys once they get worked up by basically hearing something they disagree with.
Damn, whatever happened to live and let live? If these retards were so fucking offended by stuff they read on your site, wouldn’t it be easier to just LEAVE AND DON’T FUCKING COME BACK?
I doubt they convinced many people of the accuracy of their views or the fallacy of those they disagree with.
Me, I’m cool with celebrating Christmas, using Kosher salt on my popcorn, and not going to church. I don’t pray, but I’m happy to send best wishes along for a speedy recovery.
Illegitimis non carborundum. Don’t let the bastards grind you down…
June 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmRedheaded Infidel
yeah…what she said.
Still praying for Joe and all those that love him.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmHugs to Rachel…Don’t let the bastards get you down.
Hurricane Mikey…
June 10th, 2008 at 4:07 pmhaha GMTA
Rachel,
You don’t know me, or even most of us, but we’ve-in a metaphorical, but likely a real sense if the need ever arose- got your back.
I waited a long time for you to resume blogging. I couldn’t bring myself to remove you from my blogroll because I missed your style, sass and good humor. Paid off, too, because, well, here you are blogging again. I’m just sorry that the humor has evaporated due to some self-important pricks. I’ll toss a few bad jokes into the comments to try and help. They will probably offend someone, but as long as that someone isn’t you, I’ll be okay with it:
June 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pmBesides the dog pictures, it is writing like this why I come back to this blog over and over again:
Rachel, I’m really glad you didn’t say atheists are dirty festering hemorrhoids on the ass of humanity and should all be wiped out. Because they’d probably get all upset and I’d have to say prayers for them so that God would lessen their anger.
Best wishes and prayers for Joe and wife, Rupert, you, and your puppies.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pmFirst, my best wishes for Rupert’s dad, his whole family, and you. And I’m a small “a” atheist.
Second, a quote I ran across some time back that I really liked:
I found it here.
The link is still good. And the anti-theists need to get a life.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:14 pmMs. Lucas, you are a patient woman
Angry Atheists: Get a grip, learn some manners. You’ll find it’s amazing how good manners makes people more likely to listen to you than rudely and loudly decrying & hectoring them for trivial (to them) matters. Which - EVEN IF - you are correct, gets you dismissed as boorish oafs.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:16 pmI think I just came up with a new term for a fundamentalist atheist who’s insulted by all this; a “foxhole”! As in “Shut yer trap, you raving foxhole!”
June 10th, 2008 at 4:16 pmRachel:
I’m sorry that the blog has become a downer because of this. Hope that doesn’t mean you’re going to close up shop again. That would SUCK!
Re: Those Particular Assholes Who Also Happen to Be Athiests, I guess soemone once said words that apply to them about as well as anything: “Forgive them, for they know not what they do.” People who shit on other people like those folks did to you actually do more damage to themselves, in my opinion, than they could possibly have done to you. Maybe they’ll wise up some day and realize what fools they’ve been, and made of themselves over the past few days. Maybe not. You can’t talk sense into them, though, so forgivin’ ‘em, and forgettin’ ‘em and movin’ on past ‘em is about the best thing you can do.
My most heartfelt, extremely orthodox and ancient Catholic prayers (take that, Athiest Asshats!) for your loved ones’ swift and perfect recoveries are being said constantly and with great care. Pax Vobiscum.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pmRachel,
((hugs))
Nicki
June 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pmJesus Wilford Christ
Ok, now I’m confused. Does Jesus have more than one middle name or is there more than one Jesus?
Jesus H. Christ is going to be pissed to find out some other guy is going around claiming to be the real Jesus, that’s all I’m saying.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:25 pmYeah, some people are just mean-spirited jerks, and that is a downer.
To cleanse the pallet, I recommend giving Firefly’s Our Mrs. Reynold’s a watch. Nothing cheers me up like a Joss Whedon take on 1940’s screwball comedies. In space. With horses.
Take care.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:29 pmI’ve wanted to say something to you, Rachel, since I first heard about Joe. I just haven’t the heart to hope that you’d see it amidst the “debate”. Hang in there, tell the angry atheists to stick it, and bask in the love, well wishes, good vibes, and, yes, prayers that we all are sending your way. Love up Rupert, love up the dogs, and focus on what makes you feel better.
Take a look at BlogDog’s LOLdog:
They called her Ghostface … and she rode a dusty steed.
Makes me howl with laughter everytime I see it!
I can haz Sunny and Maggie pics, plz?
June 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pmNicki F. - went to your blog - my guess is you’ve busted the Swear Meter to bits defending Rachel. Nicely done - thanks for having her back and making me laugh!
Ok - here’s my joke contribution, Physics Geek:
Man goes into a bar and sees a fellow patron with a dog under his barstool and says ‘Your dog bite?
Man says ‘No.’
Dude reaches down to pet the dog and gets soundly bitten.
‘I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite!’ he says.
‘That’s not my dog.”
I know, I know, It’s an old one, but it makes me laugh every time.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:32 pmThere are two kinds of people in this world:
1. Those who need a swift kick in the nuts.
2. Those who don’t.
Personally, I find sanctimony to be an instant identifier that said person belongs in category #1. It doesn’t matter whether it’s religious sanctimony, political sanctimony, or whatever - if you’re a sanctimonious twit, you need to be kicked in the nuts. It’s that simple.
You, Rachel, are not a sanctimonious twit. The sanctimonious ‘atheists’ who decided to turn your blog into the battleground of a religious fight that nobody is showing up for, on the other hand, should receive some steel-toed crotch kicking justice at the earliest possible opportunity. I say this not because they are atheists, mind you - I say this because they’re “holier than thou” atheists who feel the need to cram their beliefs down the throats of the “infidels”. As Redhead Infidel already pointed out, this reminds us of many other fundamentalists out there, including (but by no means limited to):
1. Wahabist Muslims
June 10th, 2008 at 4:32 pm2. 700 Club Fundie Christians
3. Communists
4. Nazis
… and so many other groups of people that are firmly convinced that, regardless of what everyone else thinks, they really do know better than everyone else around them and just can’t wait to impose their beliefs on the mere lesser mortals out there.
Hope the surgery goes well. All of you are still in our thoughts and prayers. Do not despair.
I am never going to apologize for using the foxhole quote, and here’s why: I have no reason to.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:38 pm. . . My kind of gal.
Prayers are continuing for Joe, Rupert not-his-real-name, Sunny, Maggie, you, and anyone else I may have missed. It can’t hurt, and it may help.
If I may, Rachel — my six year old daughter spent a month and a half in the hospital earlier this year with severe respiratory infections, to the point that we almost lost her a couple of times. All of my friends and acquaintances, who know that I’m Catholic, offered up their prayers and/or good thoughts during our ordeal. I’m not saying the prayers made her better, because she’s home now but with a trach, but knowing that all those people were praying and/or thinking about her definitely helped the wife and myself get through it.
My $0.02 worth.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:47 pmYou and yours are in my prayers.
A priest, a Rabbi and Bill Clinton, carrying a poodle, walk into a bar. The bartender says, “Is this some kind of joke?”
June 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pmMarla — Yeah, I’m not nice when people act like douchebags to people I happen to like and respect. I’m not always that cantankerous, but there are definitely times…
June 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pmRachel: I said some pretty flippant and borderline-offensive things about Christianity and the Bible, and actually ASKED Christians to fight me on it. They did. And maybe 1% of them were even remotely hostile. The rest found it in themselves to answer my questions with a calm and civil tone, and it turned into a couple of really productive debates.
I’d be interested in reading one or more of these interactions. I find this claim hard to buy given the comments in this and in the previous blog entry.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:56 pmOne more wacky idea I thought of… I say this with apologies to William Jennings Bryan:
If they dare to come out in the open field and defend their sanctimony as a good thing, we shall fight them to the uttermost, having behind us the producing masses of the nation and the world. Having behind us the commercial interests and the laboring interests and all the toiling masses, we shall answer their demands for atheist orthodoxy by saying to them, you shall not press down upon the brow of atheists this crown of crap. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of bull.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:58 pmI’ve been so busy the last two days I’ve only been able to pray for Rupert’s dad, his family, and friends. That, I can do, and I have. And I will.
I’m not sorry I missed the athiest rants. My dad told me long ago that when athiests deny God, they have to worship someone — so they worship themselves. That’s why athiests are so often overbearing, arrogant pricks who don’t understand why you just don’t OBEY. It’s no fun to argue with a person who believes they are a god. So I don’t.
So I pray for them. Heh.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:59 pmAfter too many years in healthcare, I’ve observed that religion is a lot like a vaccination.
Some people don’t want to be exposed to it, but they’re glad everyone else does.
Hope things get better for you & yours, Rachel. Oh, and here are some words to live by: Illegitimi non carborundum. And no, it’s not from the Latin Mass.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:13 pm…then you’d be in Canada.
(one more Christian adding my prayers for Joe’s speedy recovery)
June 10th, 2008 at 5:15 pmOr, Illegitimaimi non corborundum.
(Don’t let the little bastards grind you down)
June 10th, 2008 at 5:17 pmIf you’re interested in reading those interactions, then go and look for them. No one here, especially not Rachel owes you evidence of her belief or non-belief.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:17 pmI did not compare you to a racist. I said the comment is LIKE a racist comment. It’s a sweeping insult to an entire class of people.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:19 pmWhy does this apply to just atheists? Why do you think it’s ok for theists to say “there are no atheists in foxholes” even if they haven’t been in foxholes themselves, but it’s not ok for atheists to comment on such an absurd claim?
June 10th, 2008 at 5:23 pmJeebus Wilford Christ, dipshit “…atheists are dirty festering hemorrhoids on the ass of humanity and should all be wiped out…” but the non-dipshits, God fearin’ or not, can stay and play with the rest of the helmeted.
Sorry, just could not resist using it somehow.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:25 pmDid someone hear the flapping of gums just now?
Nope, I didn’t hear anything.
Me, neither. Hey, how about some new dog pics?
June 10th, 2008 at 5:33 pmAtheists have a touching faith in their own lack of religion.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:35 pmCheck the archives. It’s all there.
I am sorry that you found it offensive, and a little sad that you really have so little to do that you take so much offense at a very old quotation about how some people react when faced with desperate situations.
And of course, none of this has anything to do with how inappropriate the comments were (on both sides, to be honest, but initiated by the atheist response) and the fact that the intent of the hostess, Miss Lucas, was never to insult anyone.
There is a time and a place for everything. This was neither.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:38 pmAs touching as a child asking Santa to give daddy a new liver?
I’m just trying to ascertain the level of touching here so I can be appropriately touched. (that just sounded wrong)
June 10th, 2008 at 5:40 pmIf there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that in order to really argue over the internet you have to create an unshakeable sense of self-esteem. You have to convince yourself that anybody who ever says anything bad about you is an idiot, no matter what. Even if you have to utterly deceive yourself to do it.
This, I think, is one of the main reasons why there are so few female bloggers compared to male bloggers. It might sound sexist, but I think everyone will agree that women tend to be more emotional than men. And when criticized, they’re more likely to take it personally than men are. Often this is a good thing. When someone says “Hey, maybe that’s not such a good idea,” women are more likely to change their behavior in response to criticism whereas men are more likely to say “Fuck off! I don’t have to listen to you!” and go right back to lighting their own farts on fire or whatever. But on the other hand, men are also more likely to let insults roll of their backs while women are more likely to get upset when personally attacked. The fact that internet anonymity exponentially increases the rudeness quotient of any given user makes the web a decidedly non-female-friendly place, and it’s the rare woman who is able to withstand it. The fact that you’ve withstood it for so long says a lot about you, Rachel.
Still, if it helps, you can imagine them like this.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:45 pm“Jesus Wilford Christ”? Rachel, are you telling me that God is really Wilford Brimley?
Don’t be ridiculous. Jesus is only 2000 years old. Wilford Brimley has been doing Quaker Oats commercials for at least twice that long.
Anyway, as an atheist I’m sorry to see other atheists being such dicks in public. I do wish, though, that people would stop making broad, sweeping claims about atheists in general just because this handful happen to be dicks. Jeremiah Wright’s a dick too, but I’m not using him as evidence that all black people suck.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:45 pmI found this little gem over at Nicki’s:
And on this thread, we are treated to this sweet compare/contrast:
[Big R The Driver over the loudspeaker]
THAT’S IT! BACK OF THE BUS, ASSHATS, BEFORE I GO ALL RALPH KRAMDEN ON YOUR KISSER!
Posted a comment similar to this elsewhere, too, but it just seems so apropos in this moment, right here, right now.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:47 pmHey, he asked for it.
Your dad, while presumably a nice guy who meant well, was mistaken. That’s like saying if you don’t watch American Idol, you have to watch something else instead. It only makes sense to people with a burning need to watch television.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:51 pmAnd now, a silly ass joke. With pork.
A man is walking down the road and, in a flash of light, God appears. The following dialogue ensues:
God: I bring you these commandments.
Man: OK.
God: Thou shalt not kill
Man: (Writing this down)OK, that seems reasonable.
God: Thou shalt not steal
Man: OK, stealing is bad, got it.
God: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Man: That’s going to take some of the fun out of Saturday night, but if that’s the rule, okay.
God: Don’t eat pork.
Man: (Still writing) Don’t eat porrrr…what was that last one again?
God: Don’t eat pork.
Don’t eat pork? Is that God talking or is that the pigs trying to pull a fast one?
Hmmmm. Pork.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:58 pmIs this your strategy? It seems like you’re doing a great job deluding yourself into think you’re anything but an idiot.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pmRachel, have only posted here a few times. Your sweetie’s dad and his family, as well as you, are in my thoughts during this really difficult time. I wish him a speedy recovery.
I’m pretty appalled at what happened on your blog, from purely “good manners” perspective. I spent a lot of time on support message boards while dealing with infertility for years. It was a cardinal rule on those boards that when someone posted a request for support/prayers/positive thoughts and you were inclined to respond, that you responded with support–no flames, no contradiction, no baiting. I know your blog is not a support board, but geez, that’s no reason for people to abandon basic rules of *niceness* in favor of advancing their own agendas.
My husband and I are non-believers (I’m not even going to court disaster by using terminology no can seem to agree on) living in the Bible Belt, and believe me when I tell you that we are quiet about it. After seeing the really obnoxious behavior of some of the atheists (greyICE being an exception) from that other site, we’ll have to be even MORE quiet about it now, just to fight the stereotype!
Peace to you and yours.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:04 pm“Dan Says:”
Is it just me or does anyone else see the irony in an athiest eating Quaker Oats?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:06 pmA comment which Rachel made. Therefore, you were comparing Rachel to a person who makes racist comments (commonly referred to as a “racist”).
Because we’re a bunch of evil, bigoted Jesus-freaks who believe science is heresy and homosexuals should be burned at the stake.
There. Is that what you wanted to hear? Will you go away now and quit bothering us?
It’s not okay to comment on that claim when the subject of the thread is about a loved one who is in a coma.
Honestly, I do not see why this is so hard for you to grasp.
Even if you reject everything the Bible says, surely you understand the concept that there is a proper time and place for that sort of thing? And surely you understand that a thread about a loved one who is now in a coma is NEITHER THE PROPER TIME NOR THE PROPER PLACE?!
Seriously “Reverend”, what is your problem? Why do you INSIST on being such an obstinate jerk? There are literally DOZENS of atheists that regularly comment on this blog, and NOT ONE OF THEM thought that bitching about some quasi-offensive statement when a member of Rachel’s family is lying comatose in a hospital bed was an appropriate thing to do. Only you, and your militant atheist compatriots, were so “socially autistic” (to quote a certain blogger with more social decorum than you) as to think that this was a socially acceptable thing to do.
And on top of that, you actually had the gall to come here and complain when we took your utter rudeness and threw it right back at you. You think that by goading us into responding this way, somehow you’ve “won” something.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:09 pmHey, The Reverend:
Mightysamarai didn’t call you an idiot, but you called him one. Thus, it is open season on you, because you’re a complete asshole who likes to pick fights with people who aren’t even looking at you. Here’s a thought, since everyone here is either ignoring you (as I will be after I submit this blast), or couldn’t care less what you have to say, why don’t you go back to talking to yourself on your blog that nobody wastes their precious time reading? That way if you want to call someone an idiot, the person most in need of that epithet will be close at hand.
And don’t bother responding to this blast. I won’t read it because it doesn’t matter what you think about me, about what I’ve said, or about anything else that’s discussed on this blog.
Off you go, now, Reverend Asshat (sung to the tune of Neil Diamond’s Forever in Blue Jeans) . . .
June 10th, 2008 at 6:17 pmReverend says: Blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah - blah, BLAH, blah blah blah. Blah? Blah!
It’s just so interesting and persuasive I could kill myself.
Ok, so a guy sits down at a bar and orders a drink. The gruff bartendar hands it to him without a word. A voice says ‘Nice shirt.’
‘Thanks,’ says the guy to the bartendar.
‘For what?’ he sneers.
‘You just said I had a nice shirt.’
‘No I didn’t. Must have been the peanuts. They’re complimentary.’
June 10th, 2008 at 6:18 pmIs it yours? For someone who styles himself as more “rational” than the rest of us, you seem awfully insecure and protective of your own beliefs. You’ve showed up on at least two blogs so far (not counting your own) talking about how “offended” and “insulted” you are at the title of Rachel’s post.
No comment on the member of Rachel’s family who is now in a coma, just a bunch of self-centered whining about how “offended” you were because someone happened to have an opinion different from yours.
But what do you care. Someone is wrong on the internet, right?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:22 pmAh, the flame war continues.
“I have very poor character and am a liar and a bigot…”
June 10th, 2008 at 6:22 pmBigot, yeah, I got pasted with that one too; must be as common as “idiot,” “magic,” and “take down that nativity scene” in the athiest lexicon.
AWESOME!
Mightysamurai’s got the family daishō (liberal use of bold) out!
June 10th, 2008 at 6:23 pmBring the pain, sam!
I have not yet read the comments on this post because before I get into any debate, I just wanted to say that you are one very strong woman. Rachel, you wrote a heartfelt post about a family about which you care very much (BTW - future in-laws?) and so many assholes used it for their personal agenda. I am keeping all of you in my prayers, and fuck the rest of ‘em. Please keep blogging as you have been doing and let the rest go to hell, although apparently they don’t believe in hell.
Your loyal readers are 100% behind you, and I hope you, Rupert, Joe and the whole family know that.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:23 pmWhat I love about these God debates is that one side has to be ultimately wrong!! “A” can not be “Not A.” The question is, which side?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:24 pmAnd on top of that, you actually had the gall to come here and complain when we took your utter rudeness and threw it right back at you.
With all due respect, samurai, you didn’t throw it back at him; you decided to insult all atheists, including those of us who hadn’t done anything wrong at all. A couple of atheists offended you, and you and a number of other posters here decided to go off on rants against atheism — as if their bad behavior was in some way caused by their atheism, rather than just being caused by bad manners. Fred Phelps isn’t proof that Christians are assholes, is he?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:25 pmOkay, Marla, I’ll bite:
An atheist walks into a bar and finds a priest, a rabbi, and an imam in boisterious discussion at a table in the back.
“What is this, a joke?” he thinks to himself.
Nevertheless, he orders a pint of bitters and the fish and chips and sits down, far away from the raucous theological discussion. Or so he hoped.
After a few moments, the priest approaches his table. “Pardon me, sir,” says the priest, “but you look a little lonely by yourself. Would you like to join us in the back?”
“No thanks, mate,” says the atheist. “I’m not into all that god stuff.”
“But God is the most important thing in the universe!” replied the priest. “How can you be disinterested in the Almighty?”
The atheist banged his fist on the table rudely, clattering his pint and his fish and chips. “I’m just trying to have a bite here. Just leave me alone, and let me eat.”
The priest scoffs off back to his table, and the atheist is left alone with his beer.
After a few more minutes, the rabbi approaches the atheist’s table. “Surely you don’t mean what you said. God shouldn’t be a burden, or an annoyance. Having and keeping the divine should be a joy in your life.”
The atheist stands up, and turns to the rabbi. “This is why religion is losing members,” he said, and he banged his fist on the table again and again. His beer wobbled. “It’s because you won’t! Stop! Bothering! People! When they’re trying! To have! A Fucking! Meal!”
By this time, the imam had rushed up to the atheist’s table. “Sir, please, calm down, please!” he cried. The atheist turned on him. “And what do you want?” he yelled as he slammed his fist down on the table one more time. Suddenly there was a crash. Behind him, his fish and his beer had crashed onto the floor and the plate and glass had shattered into a hundred pieces..
Amid the stunned silence of the pub, the imam softly spoke up. “Sir, I was just trying to save your sole!”
Stolen from here:
http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/29/complete-the-atheist-joke-1/
June 10th, 2008 at 6:28 pmGotcha, Jimmy :), but the problem here has never been athiest/theist - it’s been unbelieveably rude and callous vs caring and compassionate, even where prayer is not a personal practice. As many of the commentariat have pointed out - it’s about civility, manners, respect, caring. Once the first atheist dropped the ‘Rachel doesn’t honor the service of atheists’ card, the gloves were off. If anyone comes to her house, where we are all guests and damn lucky to be so, and thinks we aren’t going to ‘bring it’ over something like that - well, they aren’t being very ‘rational’!
The more I see of him on this blog, the more ‘Reverend’ reminds me of the guy on the Simpson’s that runs the comic book store. There have been some thoughtful, nice atheist on this latest issue, but he ain’t one of them!
June 10th, 2008 at 6:30 pmThe link between prayer (if you are the type), lucky pennies and four-leafed clovers is hope. If you believe in God, prayer will give you hope. If you find a penny (heads up of course), you might feel a moment of hope that today will be an especially good day. We can live without a lot of things but living without hope is no life at all. Whatever helps you get there…works for me.
I’m glad you’re not apologizing! There’s a quote something along the lines of “if you please yourself than at least one person is happy”. It’s your blog, your feelings, and hopefully you are happy with the majority of the responses.
Best wishes to Rupert’s dad for a speedy recovery.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:33 pmAaand here we go with the insults. You are upset over a “sweeping insult to an entire class of people” which, of course, was nothing of the kind. Perpetually grieved, you cannot even empathize with Rachel’s problems, and come here to insult and stir the pot. Do you really think you will convert anyone or have the last word? Every time I’ve seen you post, you only prove your lack of intelligence and your willingness to sacrifice manners for a point only you will “get.”
Oh well, feed the trolls and all that. Rachel - this too shall pass.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:33 pmOr how about this one:
Q: How many atheists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Two: One to change the lightbulb, and one to videotape the event to keep the theists from claiming that god did it.
Also stolen from here:
http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/29/complete-the-atheist-joke-1/
June 10th, 2008 at 6:36 pmBorn-again atheists are the worst!
June 10th, 2008 at 6:38 pmOh yeah? Show me.
Seriously, show me the post where I insulted “all atheists”. I dare you.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:39 pmWhy did the atheist cross the road:
The atheist opposed the use of the word “cross” in the joke since it is a Christian symbol and would therefore propose the following:
Why did the atheist traverse the road?
Right Siders have long extolled the virtues of the right side of the road, proclaiming anyone else (leftians and even centerians) to be heretics. All those who ventured to the other side of the road were, supposedly, doomed to an eternity of torture. Even looking across to the left side was strongly discouraged. However, when using objectively obtained evidence, it became more and more clear that the left side of the street was not, as had long been asserted, a sinister hotbed of hedonistic Satan worship, but was in fact lush and green with ice-cream stands and everything. Add to that the fact that there was plenty of room to move around, as opposed to the cramped right side, and the atheist (rightfully) determined that it was to his benefit to cross the road.
Ditto:
June 10th, 2008 at 6:41 pmhttp://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/29/complete-the-atheist-joke-1/
I can’t quite identify with atheists, as I’ve had a personal inclination toward God most of my life. I will never argue about it with anyone.
That said, militant atheists who get offended by “under God” in the pledge and the whole “foxhole” thing are a fascinating bunch to me. What I mean is that if I were to believe that there is nothing after this life, then getting emotionally worked up (with much more fervor than most evangelical Christians, I may add) over these and other issues would seem absurd. To quote Jesus (in a parable about a man who did not take God seriously), “Take life easy. Eat, drink, and be merry.” If I were an atheist, I would like to think that that would be my philosophy. Yet the atheists who make the news are the angry ones who want to take religion away from everyone else, who can’t stand it when someone says “Merry Christmas!” (As an aside, those people should be forced to work on December 25th every year! Heh)
One final thought for now: Why does it seem that only affluent countries have militant atheists? (I don’t count communist autocracies, because the oppressed are taught atheism from birth, and the leaders cynically live off the slave labor of others) I wonder if it’s because people living in poor non-communist countries are more concerned with surviving the next day than arguing about such grand ideas?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:44 pmAtheist jokes? Ok, how about some Jesus jokes?
Jesus walks into a hotel and slams three nails on the clerk’s desk.
“Can you put me up for the night?”
June 10th, 2008 at 6:44 pmWow.
Most of these people don’t even know you, haven’t ever met you, and then you realize: These people love and respect you. That’s some powerful stuff you’re swinging around.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:45 pmA guy walks into a bar, with a half-dozen beautiful women draped all over him. He walks up to the bar, whips out a wad of bills, and yells “Drinks are on me!”
June 10th, 2008 at 6:47 pmWhile the bartender is getting everyone set up, he reaches into his vest pocket and pulls out a tiny man. He sets him down on the bar, and the little guy proceeds to kick over everyone’s drink, pees on the bartender’s leg, and bite him.
The bartender says “Alright, you, out of here, now!” The man apologizes profusely, pulls out more money, and says, “I’ll pay for everything.” The bartender grudgingly agrees.
After setting everyone up again, the little guy runs around, kicks over all the drinks, yells insults at everyone, and pees on the bartender again. “All right, that’s it. Tell me what’s going on with this, or out you go!”
The man starts in, “Well, you see, I was shipwrecked on a desert island. One day I found this lamp half-buried in the sand, so I rub it, and out pops a genie. Of course, I get three wishes. The first is for beautiful female companionship. Here they are. Next, I wished for more money than I could ever spend. I can pull twenties out of my pocket all night.”
“Okay, but what’s with the little man?”
“My last wish was for a twelve inch prick…”
mightysamurai Says:
It wouldn’t be hard at all, if he had any desire to grasp it, but it’s that complete lack of willingness to even attempt empathy that allowed for his being here in the first place.
By his standards, I should launch into you now, because I’m female, and you said something at 5:45 that I could choose to construe as an insult to all females.
Or I could read your words in context and perceive them as the compliment to Rachel’s fortitude that you intended; but that’s just me :).
June 10th, 2008 at 6:47 pmYou sound like my kids:
“You think you’re so bad, well I’m badder — see, see, look what I can do — HAH.”
Hey, rev, I got them from the forum of one of your peeps. Everyone over there is creating these jokes, not me!
Why not go and get some jokes from one of mine? or maybe go to the site I included and poke a little fun at yourself?
We need a little levity here. Lighten up. Your insides must look like swiss cheese.
You sound like my kids.
Oh, and that’s just funny right there.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:48 pmAs an atheist myself I have to say Rachel: don’t let the insensitive pricks get to you. You’re doing fine. I hope after this is all over you don’t think we’re all A-holes. It sucks that they had to choose now, a time when there is much more to think about, as the time when they would try to call you out, “convert” you, or harass you.
Even though I don’t believe in God, and I don’t ever pray, I still have to meditate or at least get some alone time every once in a while to figure life out; to sort things out in my head, or to solve problems with work or family. When believers pray, they pray about those exact same things: that’s what’s on their mind. The way I see it, they are, at the very least, identifying consciously what problems they have in their life, if not solving them, and that’s the same thing I do myself.
So there is value in prayer. When I have a few minutes to stretch out before a mountain bike ride or when I am laying in bed at night thinking about my day, that’s my form of prayer. Atheist prayer. No big whoop.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:49 pmHow do you make an atheist mad?
Key his karma and kick his dogma
Try to convert his dog to religion.
Both of these were great!
Once again, I thank:
June 10th, 2008 at 6:52 pmhttp://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/29/complete-the-atheist-joke-1/
Heather and Marla,
All these bad puns are ruining the hot lesbian jello-rasslin’ imagery of two days ago.
But, heh, it’s still better than the guys beatin’ the dead horse on this thread.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:54 pmI’ve already seen your “I didn’t insult ALL atheists, just MOST atheists” defense in the other thread, and I don’t see anything to be gained from repeating the argument in this one. Suffice it to say that if I claimed “most Christians are pedophiles”, Christians in general would be well within their rights to take offense.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:55 pmIt always saddens me when a minority group doesn’t learn from the ways they are treated.
Coming from someone who’s been an atheist since early childhood - people wanting to save my soul grinds on me. But, it also embarrasses me when atheists basically behave in the same fashion.
I believe religion is about comfort. Why would you ever want to take that from someone?
Sometimes when bad things happen - you turn towards God - sometimes you turn away.
When you’ve truly lived through horrible things, you let people have whatever gets them through day with as little suffering as possible. If the same things don’t provide me comfort - what does it matter to anyone?
I sincerely hope your FIL recovers quickly, and has as few scars (physically and mentally ) as possible.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:57 pmTo: The Reverend
This is a conservative blog, run by an adorable agnostic. You’re out of context here, can’t you see it?
Pack up and leave already!!
June 10th, 2008 at 6:59 pmOne final thought for now: Why does it seem that only affluent countries have militant atheists?
Because it isn’t safe to say unpopular things in most of the non-affulent countries.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:03 pmAtheists, on the other hand, particularly the angry variety, well you’re just screwed. Not because they’re right or because their argument is superior, but because there is no overarching moral standard that they claim to adhere to and that you can use to prove to them their own hypocrisy.
You just did, love conquers all. I once proposed that if an atheist stands in to be killed in place of say a child in a hostage situation, does he get to go to heaven? Then I reminded us of Jesus own words. “No greater love has a man than he lay down his life for his friends”. You can do anything with love. Jesus also said “No one comes to the Father except by me”, he gets to decide, for he is love, and those who love are his sheep, and “My sheep hear my voice”.
God Bless
June 10th, 2008 at 7:05 pmOkay, Christians, are we mature enough to handle this humor? Get on board …
Why didn’t Jesus replace the stone from the tomb when he rose from the dead?
Well, he was born in a barn.
Got this from the same site where you got yours, Rev:
June 10th, 2008 at 7:07 pmhttp://www.liberator.net/humor/Jesus/Jesusjokes.html
Who are the angry ones?
June 10th, 2008 at 7:07 pmOkay, Rev, I’ll drive that tanka!
Set up:
A duck walks into a bar and asks the bartender, “Got any grapes?”
Barkeep says, “Get out of here and don’t come back! We don’t serve your kind in here!”
Next day, the duck walks into the bar again, and again asks, “Got any grapes?”
Barkeep says, “Get out of here and don’t come back! I told you yesterday, we don’t serve your kind in here!”
Next day, the duck walks into the bar again, and again asks, “Got any grapes?”
Barkeep says, “I told you we don’t serve your kind in here! If you come in here again, I’ll nail your beak to the bar!”
Next day, the duck walks into the bar again, and asks, “Got any nails?”
Barkeep says, “No!”
Duck says, “Got any grapes?”
So my kid and I were talking about some of the resurrection stories: like the one where the disciples are by the sea, and Jesus shows up (but they don’t recognize him) and he’s hungry, so he asks . . .
June 10th, 2008 at 7:09 pmRachel,
Best wishes to Joe. I rode for about a year. Me and my dad bought motorcycles during the same summer and went on a couple of rides together. I had to sell mine for book money, but dad held on to his and started riding it daily for his 20 minuet commute when gas got stupid high.
Then one day a blue hair who couldnt see over the dash any more pulled out in front of him. He was going the speed limit (45mph) and couldnt do anything. Unfortunately he made the big mistake of locking up, and broke both his wrists. The EMTs said that the back of his hand could touch his arm. The doctors word for the state of his wrists was “destroyed”. They told him he would be lucky to get 50% of his use back and recommended that he get one of them fused.
He didnt.
For a few years he had to be careful about how he used his wrists. He couldnt do many of the things he used to do, including playing guitar (something else we did together…something he taught me). At christmas I was trying to play Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring, and kept mangling the same part. Dad had taught it to me, and I kept pestering him to show me again. To get his hands around the neck he had to hold the thing almost vertical…but he played.
He got himself an $11,000 Gibson as a challenge to himself. He continued to play and do the other thigns they told him he would never do again (home improvements, pingpong, etc). Now he has 100% use of his wrists again. And he was 50 when this all happened…no spring chicken.
Dont give up hope because of doom and gloom doctors. It may be a long road, but recovery is always an option. The same goes for Rupert and his back.
As for the totally unrelated atheist assholes, I have an email coming for you…so keep an eye out for it.
Ok, and to keep the mime going:
A guy walks into a bar, grabs his head and yells “Ow!!”
That one always tickled my funny bone.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:11 pmSetting aside for a moment that I did not, in point of fact, go off on a rant about “all atheists”, a person’s religious views ARE one of the main determinators of their behavior.
Our religious views make up the core of our identities and personalities. They inform our every thought and action.
You brought up the example of Fred Phelps. Well, his religious beliefs DO play a part in his behavior. He embraces the parts of the Bible that condemn homosexuality, but he ignores the parts that urge Christians to be kind, show respect to others, and not to judge. Or he might just be building a whacko cult, as two of his sons allege. Either way, his religious beliefs inform his actions.
Therefore, I would argue that the atheists who felt so compelled to lecture and insult Rachel simply because she asked us to pray for one of her loved ones ARE doing it because of their atheism. Their particular brand of atheism, at any rate. They’ve decided that not only does God not exist, but it is their right and duty to tell everyone about it. They have elected themselves the “guardians” of their non-faith and decided they must fight against anyone who utters anything that even might be an insult towards them. Reasonable atheists are rightly embarrassed by them, just as reasonable Christians are rightly embarrassed by this guy and others like him.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:13 pmI’ll never understand the religious fervor of atheists.
(obviously this comment doesn’t apply to atheists who are without religious fervor, so if this doesn’t sound like you, I’m not talking about you)
June 10th, 2008 at 7:13 pmSome atheists like to claim that they’re more evolved than those who believe. I guess they’ve evolved beyond such draconian concepts like tact and humility.
Still sending my best to Rupert and his folks.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:14 pmTo Carbo, with luvz. You must have “magical wished” hard enough
… GRANTED! Hah, enjoy, my friend!
June 10th, 2008 at 7:18 pmRev, if you’re an atheist, then what possible joy could you derive from spending your life bitching about what other people say or do? Just go out and have a good time. After all, this life is all you’ve got, right? So, you may as well party your ass off. Go out and find some chick to bang instead of wasting your time here. Heck, go for two! See if you can snag a couple of lesbians; that would be awesome.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:19 pmWay to backtrack.
And no, I didn’t say that either. I said that most people who call themselves atheists are like that. I also said that the people who do that aren’t actually atheists, even though they claim to be. If you had claimed that “most Christians are pedophiles” I would respond that any person who calls himself a Christian but also molests children is NOT a Christian.
But lets say I did say that “most atheists” are like that (again, I didn’t, but lets say I did).
Did I say that before or AFTER a bunch of militant atheists came to this blog and started spewing insults?
June 10th, 2008 at 7:21 pmDan, with all due respect, the insults came after a few from your forum came over here and decided to shit on Rachel’s grief. Additionally, I’ve read the thread on that forum as well, and it’s absolutely disgusting that most (not all) there fail to understand that tactlessness and rudeness is what we’re taking issue with here, not the fact that you happen to be atheists.
I don’t care if you’re atheist, theist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian or Great Pumpkinist. You shit on someone I consider a friend, and you’ll get it threefold! I don’t think I’ve seen people here condemn all atheists - not for their l